Fish Hook hand Path

[Mark H]

The key principle of what I teach is just what I think your thinking about. Development of control of the bat. A consistent swing plane to the ball. It is IMO the single most important aspect in the development of a young hitter.

There may be others on here who will disagree and that is fine with me but if the swing plane is consistent the hitter will be making much better contact with the ball when they get on plane with the pitch.

There are of course a lot of elements that must be developed in a hitter to get to that consistency but for me that is the goal.

Dana

A good clean swing plane is a big deal.

 

[ssarge]

Maybe some of this will help you...I ask them if they think I can lift them with one hand? No way coach I weigh 150 pounds! I suggest to them they have a paradigm or a mental model of how they think something works and it limits them to learning and understanding more than they could. A great example was Dick Fosbury the high jumper who shocked the world when he went over the high jump bar backwards and set a new standard and technique for the sport. These kids have never even heard of him so I explain his technique is now an accepted method however it took him thinking out of the box of what he could do and he did it!

Then I get a 2x4 and a block of wood and have them stand on it and up they go with one hand. We talk about leverage and fulcrum and I point to their bat and say what is that and they say bat and I say lever! I explain how they hold the lever or grip it can make a big difference in the force applied to the hitting of the ball. we then show them how to use the hammer and that we grip the bottom hand differently than the top hand. Using these types of explanations seems to help the girls learn faster. We then do a drill we call Matrix as we do it in super slow motion....bend at the waist and soften knees and get a good two eyed look. Load, toe touch, separate and we emphasize the elbows work as unit and the knob leads the elbows and just flip the ball off the tee into the net. We talk about how it felt to release the hammer head to the nail and that the elbow is a hinge and so is the wrist and releasing the bat head to the ball is just like nailing the ball only we are horizontal with the hammer blows. Then they start to swing harder. They seem to grasp it a little faster especially when you explain the lever between the elbow and wrist is moved a little and the wrist moves a lot to direct the force of the hammer head with a flexed lead elbow.

Hope this helps.

Howard

Thank you, Howard. I very much appreciate the visual teaching style you employ, and I get ideas every time you share information like the above. I'm sure that is true for all of us. Please keep the info coming!

Something that is harder for me to grasp from the written word - it would be great to SEE the drill - is the timing of the various movements. For example, WHEN "the wrist moves to direct the force of the hammer head."

Best regards,

Scott

 

[Hitter]

Howard,

Just to be clear because I have been seeing the same thing wrt to the wrists and how the hands grip the bat.

Would I be accurate to say that you tell a hitter to grip the bat with both hands as you would correctly hold a hammer? Even though the wrists function differently they hold the bat the same way?

BTW, I just came across a great quote concerning the game of chess but I thought it applied to swinging a bat



Made me thing about control of the bat head.

Ray

MTS

Dana and I know each other well and he has been to our house and observed me working with students. I know what I am about to explain will draw a lot of criticism however our kids hit pretty well in my opinion and are not MLB players and probably never will be. I only have had one make it to the NPF and she got pregnant within 30 days! Her dream came true and now she has another dream a little girl.

We teach gripping the bat a little differently than most....we do not line up the finger knuckles! We hold the bat in the bottom hand where the fingers meet at the palm of the hand with the thumb over the index finger. We grip the bat in the top hand so the bat lays across and in front the index finger pad.

We take a piece o saran wrap and double it and twist it and tie it on the index finger, so it is just forward of the index finger bat and have them place the bat just forward of it and it angles toward the baby finger and not exactly where the fingers join at the palm of the hand.

Try this for me...have your daughters hold the bat the way they normally do and bring the bat to contact. The lead arm is flexed and not in a power V and you could view the top hand elbow like a bent L. Now take your little finger and apply pressure rearward at the end of the bat and ask her to try and resist your efforts. IF she has the finger knuckles lined up it has been my experience that the bat is in the back of her hand all the way and you will feel the bat deflect about 6 to 8 inches before it starts to firm up in her hand. Now try to have her hold the bat as described above and you should feel immediate resistance because as we describe it the top hand is behind the bat. Now try one more experiment...have her do this again and this time have her look for where the ball is going so the chin is just above the horizon and then with her chin slightly below the horizon as if tracking the ball. We know you can not see the bat and ball collide however we know we are stronger with our head down during contact and you will feel the difference with the head up/ down. We glued a white sock inside our tee so when they are done we want their head to stay in the contact zone and see the white rag.

Two plus years ago Don Slaught called me about grip and explained the players would cut off the top of their tube socks and place it on the top hand grip area of the bat to facilitate allowing the bat to move in the top hand. If you look at the grip we described the top hand knuckles will be a little offset towards where I wear my wedding ring. When you swing the bat with the grip I described quickly, then look at the finger knuckles you will observe the finger knuckles line up at contact as you hit the ball. Line up the finger knuckles and swing and I feel my wrists rolling and feel as if the bat is rolling over (note: that is only my feeling and I am not saying it will work for everyone)

Don demonstrated on my lap top via internet link up that AP appeared to be one of the few who still used a finger knuckle line up. He showed others who did not and you can do your own research on that. I ask Don why do MLB players use so much pine tar if you want the bat to move in the top hand? He thought it was a great observation and showed me Luis Gonzales and during his swing and the bat was moving towards his finger tips and he was attempting to increase his whip action and or bat speed however he did not want to let go of the bat yet. I use saran wrap and place it on the top hand position of the bat handle to get my kids to feel it and all of them use this type grip now. We measured bat speed using a Swing Speed Radar unit and found a 2 to 4 MPH increase in bat speed, so in my opinion a little here and there and before long we make a difference. Al Dilz who designed the unit lives here in Cincinnati so I had him over to assure me I was using the unit correctly.

This is why we grip the hammer differently in the bottom hand verses the top hand when doing the one handed drills and for hitting the end of an old bat like it is a nail. You better be holding it differently or it does not FEEL right in our opinion. When I use the nail simulator we use the same grip in both hands as we would using only the top hand as I am teaching them how it feels to release the head of the hammer/ bat as we nail it! This is also great to teach when converting a right handed hitter to left and SBFAMILY daughter has been a model student for this technique.

We feel it has helped get on the plane of the pitch better and we can control the bat barrel better. We feel we can control the wrist angle release better as we rotate our belly button as needed and do not pull off the ball.

Bustos uses this grip as well as Berg who I have worked with here at the house and I have a poster from back in the day (1998 Easton Connection promo) showing Laura, Shelly Stokes, Shelia Douty and Jennifer Brundage with what looks like a hooking of the index finger of the top hand at contact. Laura looked so young then 11 years ago

Let me know how it goes with your daughters please.

Howard

 

[tom.guerry]

this is a very good grip description by hitter. the same grip with allowance for top hand "slippage" is described and recommended by Mankin. the slippage avoids "wrist bind" which can make it difficult to accomplish 2 swing requirements:

1- early handle torque/positive couple which is more efficient with elbows wide apart and a choke grip like Hank Aaron,and

2 - a smooth, non "wobbling" release which is easier with elbows closer together and door knocker lined up grip that is popular in fp

One reason the knocker lined up grip is traditional in fp is that most swings have no early handle torque and inadequate separation/torso loading so you have to compensate with arm extension and wrist roll. this grip keeps the bat from the extreme wobble that would otherwise result from this still frequently see arm dominant downswing

 

[RayR]

Howard,

I am not quite getting the saran wrap set up. Any pictures?

I get the tube sock. Is the saran to replace the sock.

I tried a sock and I feel like I need to increase my bottom hand grip pressure so the bat does not fly out of my hands.

 

[Hitter]

Thank you, Howard. I very much appreciate the visual teaching style you employ, and I get ideas every time you share information like the above. I'm sure that is true for all of us. Please keep the info coming!

Something that is harder for me to grasp from the written word - it would be great to SEE the drill - is the timing of the various movements. For example, WHEN "the wrist moves to direct the force of the hammer head."

Best regards,

Scott

Scott

Have someone hold an old bat out in front of you and use the knob as the nail and experiment using a hammer. I start with up the middle first and think elbow knob of bat (end of hammer) and then release at a right angle to the knob. I start with the top hand first and visually look at my hand as the elbow lowers my hand is stacked exactly over my elbow and this is when I see the transition of the hammer head rearward. I point out to my students that the little V below their chin, the clavicle notch, becomes the third eye as I want them to turn the shoulders in the direction of the path of the ball or tracking it with their third eye. Gripping the bat as we do we feel gives us better bat control allowing the bat to move unrestricted. Try holding the hammer with your thumb over the index finger and you should feel the hammer want to go more outward or away from you and diminishing your accuracy to hit the nail/ knob of the bat. Then have the person set up outside and inside to feel the different release points.

The bottom hand grip is different for us as described in another post. The lead elbow makes a good first move by moving about 2 to 4 inches forward and up and the end of the hammer/ knob of the bat is inside the path of the ball and again we are using the third eye to track the ball so we begin our turning of the shoulders leading with the knob and releasing the hammer head to the ball. Notice the position of your elbow is close to the top height of the shoulder and the hand is under the elbow at an angle and we release the wrist and nail the ball.

I use a device called the hand path and it is basically a PVC tube that slides inside each other and has a softball whiffle ball attached at one end and what looks like a bent lolly pop on the other end. The ball can be moved to adjust to any length of sweet spot to bat position. We stand in front of the hitter and they load, toe touch and separate. We ask them to make a good first move and try to touch the lolly pop with their lead elbow and then start to track it with their third eye. I have several different colors of tape near the lolly pop end and want them to direct the knob of the bat to the color tape that feels good to them as the length of the fore arm to finger tip is a little for everyone. Then we have them release the barrel to the ball and they visually see the hands are inside the path of the ball and the barrel of the bat is on the ball on the end of the stick. For an outside pitch angle the ball deeper in the box and an inside pitch further forward. This works great at the clinics to make the concept of hands inside the ball looks like and feels like.

I will try and get Cshilt to post a picture of this as he is the computer Wiz Kid of my friends.

Thanks Howard

 

[Hitter]

Howard,

I am not quite getting the saran wrap set up. Any pictures?

I get the tube sock. Is the saran to replace the sock.

I tried a sock and I feel like I need to increase my bottom hand grip pressure so the bat does not fly out of my hands.

MTS

You got it exactly! The top hand in our opinion should feel loose. The saran wrap does take the place of the socks and we use it just to get the point across and after a few dozen swings we take off the wrap.

You described what our hitters feel and that is an increase in bat speed and power and in time more control of the bat as they come around the pro verbal corner when rotating as needed.

This is why we hold the bat/hammer differently in the bottom hand and loose with the top hand.

Try this...extend out your right hand/ arm palm up and then take your other hand and using the thumb and index finger place it over your outstretched arm forearm and squeeze it firmly. Then move only your baby, ring and social finger like you were holding the bat. You should feel both sides of forearm muscles activate as they share a common tendon. Now repeat and only move the index finger and thumb and you will only feel a little movement in the outstretched arm thumb side only. We call the three fingers grippers ( actually only the ring finger and social finger are required) and the thumb and index finger balancers. Which is why we feel it restricts or limits our transition of the bat forward.

Thanks for the feed back.

Howard

 

[RayR]

MTS

You got it exactly! The top hand in our opinion should feel loose. The saran wrap does take the place of the socks and we use it just to get the point across and after a few dozen swings we take off the wrap.

You described what our hitters feel and that is an increase in bat speed and power and in time more control of the bat as they come around the pro verbal corner when rotating as needed.

This is why we hold the bat/hammer differently in the bottom hand and loose with the top hand.

Try this...extend out your right hand/ arm palm up and then take your other hand and using the thumb and index finger place it over your outstretched arm forearm and squeeze it firmly. Then move only your baby, ring and social finger like you were holding the bat. You should feel both sides of forearm muscles activate as they share a common tendon. Now repeat and only move the index finger and thumb and you will only feel a little movement in the outstretched arm thumb side only. We call the three fingers grippers ( actually only the ring finger and social finger are required) and the thumb and index finger balancers. Which is why we feel it restricts or limits our transition of the bat forward.

Thanks for the feed back.

Howard

OK, with this in mind I can up with something for the swift stik I have. I cut a piece of pvc to slide over the handle and with top hand I found that the pinky should be on the bat handle so the pvc doesn't slide down and pinch your bottom hand. The other 3 fingers wrap around the pvc.

 

[Hitter]

MTS

The saran wrap worked best for my kids so they could actually use their own bat so they could get the feel of it better in my opinion. The concept I think you are getting is we grip the bat differently for each hand. When doing one hand drills I think in my opinion they forget about the grip and they are inconsistent when going to separation. This is why for example when using the top hand we make a fist with the lead hand and touch the top with it so we are basically in the same area as to stretching (separating) so we do not loose the feeling and the same applies when doing the lead hand, we touch the top hand so we do not loose the feeling of where the elbow is when using both hands.

Our one handed bats are simply schedule 80 PVC (gray verses white) and we put a wood plug 14.5 inches (1.75 inches long) from the knob of the bat and screw it in place. One of the dads makes me a knob we slide inside the PVC and pin it in place. Then we take 3 to 8 ounces of number 9 bird shot (Bas Pro Shop) and pour it in from the bat head end and secure the cap with PVC cement. I tried B/B's, sand, glass bead peen and metal shot peen and the kids choose the number 9 bird shot as feeling the best. Only hit tennis balls with this or whiffle balls! Using three ounces is just about right for anyone and Crystl uses an 8 ounce version. Then we put a tennis racket grip on the bat. The girls like the tennis racket grips better as it comes in an air cushioned grip and is a little tacky as to feel and are cheaper than bat grips. We wanted a full length bat that would not stress the shoulder, elbow or wrist and still have the length of their bat being used for feeling. CB does not even use a full size bat to hit with. The school of thought was the short bats IE Schutt, little league, cause the wrist to roll because there is not enough length, so the centripetal force is lost (feeling of not the actual force itself) when you actually swing the shorter bat verses one that is longer. Sometimes it is the instructor also. The PVC sticks feels like it will swing itself once you get it started as the bird shot starts to slide gradually to the end of the bat and you can feel the centripetal force of it sliding. I do not like the snap bat as I can not control the movement of the weight like I can with these and my students did not like the feel of it either. I have a 34,33,32,31,30 inch PVC so we can accommodate anyone. Usually you have to go to a specialty plumbing supply company to get it, as Lowe's and Home Depot do not carry it in my area. Do not waste your time on the schedule 40 (white PVC as it will not take the beating if they hit the tees very often.Just my opinion....

Howard

 

[tom.guerry]

good description here by RQL about adjusting being done early :

Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

jack I was watching a clip of rocco baldelli,hitting a homer on a inside cornerand up strike.It is a good clip as it shows both front and side profile of same swing,you get to see the adjustment of in and out as well as the up and down.Anyways what I noticed was that on this extreme pitch the lead arm did not get set as I saw it until near the end of tht,or that rear elbow was about 1/2 way down and the bat had traveled a good ways maybe 50 degrees or more from initiation behind the head.Interesting is that though their is a big bend and adjustment in the lead arm,it really is mostly all done quite early in the swing,it looks like he is so tied up on the pitch and he made this arm adjustment late to draw in tight but really it is quite early before much shoulder rotation is happening.You see in the stride and load how his lead arm is stretching back to connection but not perfectly straight,this is his comfort load position from which he adjusts to.I wonder if on the really away pitch where he will have a completely straight arm stretched across his chest in order to reach the away pitch will it be set by mid tht bat position or earlier or later.