Fish Hook hand Path

[lhowser]

Rose's wrist angle (cock) definately changes just before contact. is this what you were describing Chris? It seems to assist in tightening the radius and perhaps increasing bat speed. It might be interesting to retrace this video following the knob instread of his back hand path.

 

[ssarge]

Here is a link to Nyman's 2004 thread on the subject. This is from his website, Setpro. It takes a little effort to understand what he is saying in these simulations, but it becomes clear if you stay with it. There are about 7 clips total as you move through the thread. I recommend this highly, I think it will be eye-opening.

Putting another nail in the THT coffin.... - SETPRO Smart Power Training Forum



Chris, I've had similar experience with an ax. Next time you've got a chance, experiment with pinching the front scap to tighten the swing radius, rather than pulling the hands in. It will produce the same result without much affecting plate coverage on the outside (mixing my weapons / sports there a bit, but you know what I mean).

Best,

Scott

 

[ssarge]

Pretty old and scratchy clip of Aaron's 500th. Load this into QuickTime and view it frame-by-frame - I think it will be illustrative.

Best regards,

Scott

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Rose's wrist angle (cock) definately changes just before contact. is this what you were describing Chris?

I think that may be confusing cause and effect.

I think it's better to think of the change in the hand path causing the change in the wrist angle.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Chris, I've had similar experience with an ax. Next time you've got a chance, experiment with pinching the front scap to tighten the swing radius, rather than pulling the hands in. It will produce the same result without much affecting plate coverage on the outside (mixing my weapons / sports there a bit, but you know what I mean).

Interesting.

By "pinching" the front scap do you mean protraction or retraction?

I assume you mean retraction.

 

[eddie35]

Front Sape

This might sound like a dumb question but when you pinch the front scap does it affect your extension through the swing??? In other words does it shorten the swing through the ball???

 

[tom.guerry]

sarge said:

"Naturally, the devil is in the details. Nyman would state that the most efficient mechanism for tightening the swing radius is to abduct / adduct the scapula (horizontally pinch the front scapula / shoulder blade towards the spine and horizontally stretch the rear scapula away from the spine) in the 1-2 frames before contact. This unload into contact is an exact reversal of the position that most elite hitters establish as they load (horizontally stretch the front scapula away from the spine, and horizontally pinch the rear scapula towards the spine). I think Nyman is right. I know from experience that this absolutely does work for elite female hitters."

This is a good summary of Nyman's info which can be found in his ebook. Another Nyman recommendation is to EXternally rotate the lead arm in the front shoulder socket when necessary to increase the range of motion for bathead release so that premature deceleration is not necessary.

Unpinching of back scap and EXternal rotation of lead arm are both INCOMPATIBLE/will prevent the MLB pattern and should be avoided if you are trying to emulate MLB hitters as your goal.

Mankin has described the compatible details where the back scap needs to stay clamped to the torso and the front arm needs to be kept from chicken winging:

Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

'Therefore, during a good rotational swing, the lead-shoulder rotates through 60+ more degrees than the back-shoulder. "

Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

"Another frequent cause for the wrist to prematurely roll is from allowing the lead elbow to collapse downward toward the batter's side prior to contact. The lead elbow must remain pointing up into the plane of the swing through the contact zone. When the elbow prematurely collapses, the hands also prematurely role from the "palm up/palm down" position. This action causes the hands to dip and the bat-head to rise. The result is most often weak ground balls."

 

[ssarge]

Some history for those who don't know the players:

Jack Mankin is a very nice man who studied a lot of VHS video in the 90s, and made some observations. Some of them - like defining a CHP (circular hand path) rather than a linear hand path, were very insightful, even revolutionary. Some were, IMO, a little more speculative. I would personally include THT in the later category. I base that partly on observation, and partly on trying to implement the mechanic with a number of female hitters over a 12-15 month span. With little success, and IMO, some detriment. As always, individual results have to be weighed against the experience of other people. But that was MY experience. Others may well disagree.

Paul Nyman is an engineer who designs sports performance equipment. To run the simulations linked above, he used commerically available mechanical / design engineering software. As you will see when you review his findings, he concluded that THT did NOTHING to add force to the swing. As ORIGINALLY DEFINED by Mankin, THT runs the risk of unhinging the bottom wrist at a very early stage in the swing, which I think is a HUGE missed opportunity. There may be work-arounds to that; I am unconvinced. But there IS risk.

Nyman concluded that maintaining the hinge angle until late in the swing, combined with tightening the swing radius, produced enormous whip and force. And the sophisticated engineering software seems to back him up.

Regards,

Scott

 

[ssarge]

This might sound like a dumb question but when you pinch the front scap does it affect your extension through the swing??? In other words does it shorten the swing through the ball???

Hey, Ed, how have you been? How is Teresa doing?

Not a dumb question at all.

I think that if a hitter merely yanks his hands inside just before contact, it will tighten the radius of the swing (and add force), but WILL also limit extension.

That is why the horizontal scap pinch of the front shoulder is more effective. It tightens the swing radius, for sure. But does it in a way that basically extends the bat forward on the same arc it was on. What you end up seeing at contact is the bat on the same line as the front arm. Almost as if the front shoulder down the arm, then along the bat is a continuous straight line to the ball. This mght move the contact point slightly forward, but won;t limit extension much, if at all.

Best regards,

Scott

 

[ssarge]

Interesting.

By "pinching" the front scap do you mean protraction or retraction?

I assume you mean retraction.

Hey, Chris. Yeah, pinch the front scap horizontally towards the spine. Almost a shrug-like move. Just like the rear-scap in the load.

Best,

Scott