Fantastic Pop Time Fanatics

[Fury_Mike]

The problem with pop times is that they are inherently inaccurate and subjective. They are not by any means a qualitative measurement of skill. Just like top pitching speed or bat exit speed they provide a measurement that is in no way applicable to live game performance, Yet just like top pitching speed or bat exit speed, people obsess over the numbers as though they are somehow meaningful. Truth is they are only meaningful within the context of the camp/event where the data was collected. They can tell you that last week at the BigNameU catcher camp Sally was a bit quicker than Suzie on that day at that camp. Nothing more. They cannot be used to compare catchers across multiple camp/events. Which is why when you crow about your 1.8 pop time to a college coach you may very well get an eye roll and an instant debit in credibility. Of course you should work on footwork, transfer, etc. But do yourself a favor and keep the value of your pop time in perspective. Leave the numbers off your softball resume and out of any conversation with a college coach. Let your skills and actual results speak for you and do not hang your hat on someting so trivial.

They are not intended to be a qualitative measure. It’s a quantitative measure, used to help coaches get a feel for the catcher prior to seeing her. To think of them as trivial is ignorant of what they are designed for. Nobody gets offered because of a pop time on paper. Measuring can be VERY accurate. Even a simple tool like imbedding a stop watch in a video can be very accurate

 

[riseball]

The greatest value they provide is in the eyes of the parents and catching instructors. As with pitching speeds, if you are focused on pop times you are certainly missing the big picture. Anything other than data collected from actual game video provides values that are meaningless. The whole concept is kind of silly. The idea that timing an action that does not happen in in a game somehow translates into a measure of ability is ludicrous. They are every bit as relevant as a players ability to hit cage bombs.

 

[Fury_Mike]

The greatest value they provide is in the eyes of the parents and catching instructors. As with pitching speeds, if you are focused on pop times you are certainly missing the big picture. Anything other than data collected from actual game video provides values that are meaningless. The whole concept is kind of silly. The idea that timing an action that does not happen in in a game somehow translates into a measure of ability is ludicrous. They are every bit as relevant as a players ability to hit cage bombs.

I guess the 1500 or 1600 college coaches must all be wrong. You should reachout to them and set them straight

 

[Eric F]

The greatest value they provide is in the eyes of the parents and catching instructors. As with pitching speeds, if you are focused on pop times you are certainly missing the big picture. Anything other than data collected from actual game video provides values that are meaningless. The whole concept is kind of silly. The idea that timing an action that does not happen in in a game somehow translates into a measure of ability is ludicrous. They are every bit as relevant as a players ability to hit cage bombs.

Learning how to make the body move quickly in practice and controlled situations is an important step towards being able to do it in the heat of battle. In fact, if you CAN’T do it in practice you’ll NEVER be able to do in a game. I would guess this applies to pitching, as well.

I haven’t measured Maddie’s pop time in practice in a long time, but my eyeball says she isn’t a whole lot faster than the 1.8-1.9 she has done in game situations (video verified). She has practiced being quick, and it has translated to being quick in games.

 

[riseball]

Learning how to make the body move quickly in practice and controlled situations is an important step towards being able to do it in the heat of battle. In fact, if you CAN’T do it in practice you’ll NEVER be able to do in a game. I would guess this applies to pitching, as well.

I haven’t measured Maddie’s pop time in practice in a long time, but my eyeball says she isn’t a whole lot faster than the 1.8-1.9 she has done in game situations (video verified). She has practiced being quick, and it has translated to being quick in games.

Nothing wrong with working on getting better. And there is nothing wrong with working on "pop time". My point is that catchers and especially their parents should not hang their hat on a number. No different than crowing about your TB/HS batting average or claiming you have 6 pitches. When you are working to get recruited and lead with stats you are in for long journey. My DD was recruited by 4 SEC teams and numerous P5 schools. She had previously hit 70mph and spun the ball in the mid 30's. Never mentioned those numbers to a college coach. In fact SC did not know how hard she threw until she got there. All they cared about was her command, movement and the fact she shut them down for multiple innings in a fall game. If your DD states she has a 1.8 pop time and at the camp they come up with a 2.1 based on their process she becomes "that kid". College coches could care less about made up metrics or about what you did at some camp. Only about what you can do day in and day out.

 

[radness]

To your point,
Accurate knowlegde matters!!

 

[riseball]

I guess the 1500 or 1600 college coaches must all be wrong. You should reachout to them and set them straight

Actually it was about 10 years ago at the NFCA convention that a PAC12 hitting coach and a couple of SEC Head Coaches set me straight on how they view camp metrics and HS/TB stats. One stated that there is nothing more telling than a player/parent obsesssed over meaningless stats and accolades. The only stats college cocahes put stock in are GPA, SAT, and ACT. Unfortunately it now appears that just like with Pop Times if you go to the right places and know the right people you can have both a 1.6 pop time and an equally legitimate SAT score.

 

[Rolling Hard]

How about a 1.6 GPA? LOL

Of course pop times are important metric to gauge a catcher but not as important other things like hitting and grades.

And what's wrong with "cage bombs'?

If you can't hit cage bombs you likely cant hit any bombs.

 

[radness]

Actually it was about 10 years ago at the NFCA convention that a PAC12 hitting coach and a couple of SEC Head Coaches set me straight on how they view camp metrics and HS/TB stats. One stated that there is nothing more telling than a player/parent obsesssed over meaningless stats and accolades. The only stats college cocahes put stock in are GPA, SAT, and ACT. Unfortunately it now appears that just like with Pop Times if you go to the right places and know the right people you can have both a 1.6 pop time and an equally legitimate SAT score.

This is why i commented about how certain camps/clinics/ athletic testing is NOT disputed.
* because of how the measurements are taken.

Speed gun & video great tools.
Especially in game situations.
Then apply more technology...

Like to throw out this reminder that all programs colleges, coaches, teams utilize different thought processes on how they recruit and who they recruit and that includes different tools.

For instance to your point of your daughter being recruited as a pitcher and not mentioning her throwing speed. There are programs that will pick up a pitcher because of their throwing speed...knowing and believing their program can help develop movement accuracy or what they are looking for
AKA certain pitches to utilize. They actually in some cases do not care so much about control as much as being able to teach it. For them finding a pitcher who can just throw that hard... let's say 70 miles an hour... would be a goal for their program. They will teach the pitches they are looking for. *Other factors we know play a role in recruitment like grades. And how much they can offer versus how much the family can afford things like that excetera...


Reading through your posts riseball and your comment about the college coaches mentioning "parents spouting off. "
Yes agree there can be a difference between parents with parent goggles and accurate knowledge.

 

[erniekru]

"But do yourself a favor and keep the value of your pop time in perspective. "

Gotta be able to hit. They can take an athletic 2nd baseman that can hit and make them a catcher in 2 weeks.
That maybe a little exaggerated but you get the idea.

Ha... Not in my experience. Agree with the exaggerated!