Denial of team tryout

[Strike2]

In most states, holding it against a player for not attending off season workouts is against the rules and, invariably, cheating.

I'm not sure how something like this gets enforced. The coach gets to decide who is on the team and, more importantly, who plays.

 

[Cannonball]

Cannonball - you're a way smarter guy than I am. I have also been blessed in my coaching career to coach two school sports in which we didn't have to make cuts (football and track). I have been in a position to give players second chances, and like you, it has worked out for the team and player in the vast majority of the situations. Kids make mistakes and need to learn from them and move on.

I am genuinely curious about what you would do in a similar situation. You have an extremely talented kid who has burned you at least twice - once to go prom dress shopping and a second time blowing off a mandatory team work session. The kid has not shown any interest in being part of the program for a year and seems to have been an attitude problem in the past. As a senior, your younger players will be looking to this kid as an example for your team. You have a full squad of girls who have expressed interest in being in the program and put in the work expected of them. Maybe some are less talented but are "all in" kind of kids. If you do let this kid tryout for a week and then cut them, you will have probably kept them from pursuing another spring sport. How do you move forward?

By the way, how is the hip? I'm 4 months post knee replacement. Greatest thing to ever happen to me, but still working on getting back to 100%.

First, thanks for the compliment but I'm not smarter than anyone. I have coached HS for 32 years and been the HC in 4 sports. I've been in this situation a couple of times. In short, I have found all types of reasons and excuses for players who have not acted right. In one case, the young lad simply didn't like anyone and had a horrible home life. I got after him pretty hard. I told him I didn't need him and that the next time he messed up, he was gone. I told him I could be his best friend or worst enemy and he needed a friend. I am about as honest as can be with my players. He came around and eventually had a cup of coffee in pro ball along with being 1st team all state. Regarding leadership, I determine, in part, who the leaders are. I do so by complimenting those players and asking them to help others in whatever skill that is being translated. For example, this week when I posted a list of drills that we do and then had various players demonstrate each drill, I made comments to the others that such and such player knows the system and so, if they have questions, ask this or that player. It becomes apparent real fast who is not asked to demonstrate. Currently, I have 7 players who demonstrate.

I believe that you catch players doing good and you compliment them. I also believe that you take those who aren't doing good and call them to the side to let them know exactly what you are thinking. Another example for baseball. I had this pitcher who threw really hard and, velocity wise, was definitely one of the top 2 pitchers I had. He had his own philosophy on pitcher that he had learned form a "kit" from a "famous" national pitching coach. Some of you might guess who that was. Anyway, he started hitting batters. I told him his method was not working. Then, he hit a key player. I told him that the next time he hit anyone, he was done. I then told his dad that he was done since he would not listen. He hit my SS who had been drafted. He was done. Had he tried to do things my way anywhere along the line after he experienced failure, I would have worked with him. He did not. He made a choice and so did I.

Per preventing them for playing another spring sport, that isn't my concern. If they want to play my sport, they tryout out and get a fair tryout in my sport.

Thanks for asking about the hip. I am so thankful for having hip surgery. I am "BACK!" I have been throwing some and hitting fungos etc. I am able to do what I once did. In fact, one of the new assistant coaches thought I was going to die two nights ago because I was "hyper" and sweating so much. It is so much fun to get to be a coach. I wish you well and I know that the knee is so much harder to recover from. Take your time and all will be good. Don't rush anything.

I'll wrap up by saying that I have been blessed to be a coach. I will say until the day that I die that it takes the players to make a good coach. I am tough. I get after it. What I have found is that the higher the expectations, the more players step up to those expectations. I have also found that being brutally honest does matter. Players know that I am who I am and that I'll pat them on the back, give them a hug but if they mess up, that kick in the butt will be coming and it will hurt.

 

[Josh Greer]

In most states, holding it against a player for not attending off season workouts is against the rules and, invariably, cheating.

When I played, open gym outside of the season was optional, unless you actually wanted to play next season.

Rules or not, they couldn't be enforced back then. I'm all for defending my kids, but the era has changed. Back then, if I screwed up at school or the coach made a decision based on my screw ups, it was enforced at home. Now a days, parents are berating the leaders for holding their kids accountable. I hate to be that "back in my day" old man; but dang it, it worked. It may not have been fair all of the time, but it was usually right. And kids were forced to step up and take care of themselves. It makes for better leaders and weeds out the herd. We aren't all winners, fair is where you get cotton candy, and buckled down hard work wins in the end. [/end of rant]

 

[Cannonball]

I'm not sure how something like this gets enforced. The coach gets to decide who is on the team and, more importantly, who plays.

I was an adviser for our state's rules committee a very long time ago. Believe me, it gets enforced more than you know. Also, back in the day when I served in that capacity, the vast majority of the time a school was turned in by a parent who's child was cut. I've seen more than a few schools be punished in one way or the other. If I know of a school breaking the rules around here, you had better bet I'm dropping the dime with my name on it.

 

[Sparky Guy]

When the DD was playing HS the first-year the new varsity coach has a similar problem. She cut a player. Mommy and daddy made a big stink about it. "Her coach said there was no way she should have been cut. Her hitting coach said there was no way she should have been cut." The coach ended up having to have a meeting with the AD over it. They had over 120 kids at tryouts. The entire varsity and JV teams were made up of high level travel players. The JV team could have beat many of the varsity programs in the area.

The next season the coach had a problem with one of the returning players. She caught the year before and played 3rd. The following season a MUCH better catcher and 3rd base showed up. She was relegated to DH and sporadic innings. Mommy went and complained to the AD.

In both situations the AD did not cave and backed the coach. When the coach did give the returner some innings at 3rd she made an error that cost the team the game and 1st place in the conference.

 

[Elk Grove Hurricane]

Just as a matter of law (yeah, I went there), I don't think you can deny any otherwise eligible student a chance to try out for a school team. If she wasn't kicked off the team the year before, the coach shouldn't be allowed to summarily deny her the opportunity to compete. And that is the way it should be, otherwise any coach could exclude anyone for any reason, including many that most of us would find extremely offensive.
Thinking bigger picture: you really should take the AD's advice to heart. Even if she tries out, they gave you the ultimate heads-up that this is not a good situation for your daughter (I'll avoid putting fault on anyone for this post). If she tries out and is cut, how will that help her? The coach does have the right to pick the final roster and talent isn't the only criteria.

 

[Tatonka]

My suggestions? You delete this post or at minimum you remove all the identifying information.

And you REALLY don't want to hear my opinion.

I was about to agree wholeheartedly with marriard but after seeing all of the responses I'm hoping that you actually wanted some good advice and are open minded enough to consider what seems to be an overwhelming consensus of opinion. It's never too late!

 

[Maxfli]

Thanks for everyone’s responses and honesty! I truly appreciate it and knew when I posted that some would be brutally honest, which is what I wanted to make sure I considered all sides. Obviously I can’t touch on everyone’s opinion, but will generalize the best I can.

I understand and respect the “look in the mirror” advice and respect that. What you should realize is that’s what I was doing when I posted here, to get opinions and points of views from others that aren’t friends or acquainted with me. I didn’t come here for “support”, I really didn’t. As I said before, I knew the responses and opinions would vary all over the spectrum. I did not start this complaint process in haste, I did so in fairness. My DD made two huge mistakes last year and paid a fair penalty for missing the practice, which I fully supported. I have not reread my original post and it was posted very late so I honestly can’t remember what I mentioned and didn’t. But in regards to her missing the field cleanup after the season had concluded, I messaged the coach asked for her to receive her own set of choirs for the entire week to teach a lesson. I don’t condone nor enable putting oneself above the team, ever, which is why I reached out at that time. I could go into more detail regarding other issues and complaints over the years regarding this coach, but will abstain for now. Just know this isn’t your normal situation of good coach/bad attitude kid.

I just feel just as inexpected my daughter to be held accountable for her actions and poor decisions, I will certainly expect the same of a paid employee/coach. We can’t in sports, or society in general, lower our expectation of behavior of players nor coaches.

More to come later on this as it unfolds. My personal goal for resolution is that it is a learneing experience for all involved and growth obtained. I wish that for current/future players, my daughter and yes the coach and myself. Keep the opinions coming though, I truly enjoy them and love a good discussion!

To the poster recently having surgery, best wishes on your recovery!

Best of luck to everyone this season!

 

[murphdog]

Is your daughter planning on playing in college?
Skipping practice or not showing up for a team activity is not going to be tolerated by many coaches.

There’s a big difference in being a good player and being a team player. It sounds like your DD does what is
best for her not what is best for the team. The coach needs to put the overall team first.

Personally i’d chalk it up to a life lesson for your DD and move on

 

[Eric F]

I just feel just as inexpected my daughter to be held accountable for her actions and poor decisions, I will certainly expect the same of a paid employee/coach. We can’t in sports, or society in general, lower our expectation of behavior of players nor coaches.

Just curious...What do you think the failing of the coach is?

From what you have described, the coach had valid reasons to exclude your DD from the team, starting with a MANDATORY meeting for all interested players. It wasn't "mandatory, except for (your DD)" right? I understand that sometimes there are conflicts/commitments with other school activities that might have prevented her from attending. In that case, the correct action is to talk to the coach before the meeting, and explain the situation. Not showing up, without a word to anyone about it, tells the coach she doesn't have any interest in playing. Additionally, up until recently, your DD said she wasn't playing SB. Suddenly, she changes her mind, after the team has already been established, and expects that a place will be made for her?? Even without the other issues about skipping team events, it seems like the coach has a valid position to exclude her. Add in those other incidents, and it makes the decision even more understandable.

EDIT: Oops. I misread about the interest meeting in the OP. It was voluntary, not mandatory.