Dipping back knee
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She coils before she picks up her front foot. IOW she coils in her stance.
The correct sequence is to coil when the front foot gets lifted to stride. IMO she is over complicating this by starting in an open stance. Have her stand with her feet square to the plate and close together. Have her pick up her front foot and fall forward as she coils. She should not turn her hips back at all until she lifts her front foot and is coming forward..."Foward-by-coiling".
What helped my DD is I told her that the reason the front foot gets lifted is to coil her hips. I then told her that when she lifted her front foot to coil, there were only two ways she could balance. She could either sway back onto her back foot, or she could allow her head to come forward. As far as she is concerned, her stride is the result of her trying to keep her head close to centered between her feet as she coils her hips. For better or worse, she does not view her stride as a way to power her swing.
Once your DD gets the basic feel of "Forward-by-coiling", let her go back to an open stance if she wants.
The benefit of starting with the feet together is that it virtually eliminates the need the kids feel to sway back onto the back foot when the front foot gets lifted. With the feet close together, they simply lift the front foot and move out as they coil. Once they get the feel of moving out when the front foot is lifted, you can begin to widen their stance over time, and you will find that as the stance widens, they will not feel the same need to sway back, because they will have learned how to balance by coming forward.
I do not believe that forward by coiling works for everyone. My DD is a solid D1 hitter and she coils early before she lifts her foot and maintains it to Toe Touch, I also do not believe that narrow stance work for most females, females center of gravity is lower then males, because of wider hips, so why would raising their center of gravity be better. Not saying it works for everyone but most I believe there always expections to every rule.
It's not a matter of whether or not "Forward-by-coiling" works or doesn't work. The principles of physics apply to your DD just like they do with everyone else. I never said a player can't hit coiling in their stance. Players can hit doing all kinds of things. I'm saying that hitters that maximize their hip action will hit better than if they don't maximize their hip action.
It sounds like you're content the way your DD is hitting. I personally never base what I teach my DD on how she is hitting at any given time. I base what I teach her on what the best hitters in the world do. I always assume that parents asking for advice have a similar goal.
If you don't mind me asking, where did your DD learn to coil in her stance?
"Ken Harrelson of the Indians was doing that one year. He was concentrating so much on
cocking the hips that he was actually doing it at the stance. He had his knee turned in and his
hips cocked before the pitch, and without that pendulum action he wasn’t generating any
power. I made a mistake. I told him about it.
We had a series in Cleveland, and when it was over I had a mutual friend tell Harrelson what
he was doing. It was a mistake because I’d forgotten the Indians were coming to Washington
the next week. When they got there, Harrelson wasn’t cocking prematurely anymore. He beat
us twice with home runs. I didn’t mind passing on tips like that to opposing players when I
was a player myself. As a manager, I’ll learn to keep my mouth shut." --Ted Williams
Regarding the narrow stance, IMO it is the simplest way for kids to learn the "Forward-BY-Coiling" movement so they can maximize their hip action. Once they get that action down, which I consider to be an absolute, then I don't really care what stance the kids use, so long as they maintain the "Forward-BY-Coiling" movement.
I'm not sure I understand your point about "raising the center of gravity". The batting stance has little to do with getting to a good "ready to hit position". Even Candrea has conceded this point on video.
- Oct 25, 2009
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I agree with the narrow stance being the easiest way to learn forward by coiling. When in a narrow stance it's pretty simple to pick the foot up and coil to toe touch. I've got a couple bigger girls I'm working on this currently. Neither one has ever hit a home run in a game (or practice until lately).
IMO, the narrow stance allows the stride to be more calmly and effortlessly controlled. And that's a big part of hitting; the violence doesn't come until the swing.
Really interesting. I've got several kids (11 y/o) that start with this big pre-coil and have a hard time getting started against quicker pitchers. i encourage during practice "Forward-by-coiling". We saw all the Alabama kids doing it the other night vs. Old Miss.
How did she figure it out? Trial and Error,we tried forward by coling and she just could not get it down. She would uncoil either to much or to early. Maybe its because we were not in a narrow stance. She likes a wide base and is comfortable there. I know you are a big fan of TW me too I have read TSOH several times and refer to it often for myself, however I just do not believe you need a big coil to be successful FP player. Slight coil and get the hips forward works well for most of the girls I work with. As I have said before I do not believe there is any cookie cutter pattern out there that works for everyone. I teach hitting the way that particular player understands, and I learn as much from them as they do from me.
- Oct 25, 2009
- 3,339
- 48
You don't need a big coil. At least not a big coil like I see some players doing it. An inch or so is fine when done right. As a matter of fact some might even agree that it's not something you can measure.
A player can feel it better than they can show it IMO. I like to think of it as storing energy and keeping it stored until the swing. It's surely not a mechanical thing. It's part of the stride and separation and occurs as stride and separation is happening I believe. It's not a separate thing like many players are taught to do; as in "load, stride, swing."
Load as you stride and separate. Together, until swing do you part.
Excellent observation IMO. I find it is sometimes difficult convincing parents and players that coiling during the stride is actually quicker than coiling in the stance. Last year I started looking for this back and forth hip action in hitters while at 14u tournaments. The ones that have it and do it naturally, really crush the ball.
When I hit off of a tee or front toss and alternate between coiling in the stance and coiling during the stride, I feel a difference in how the hips clear. My top hand always feels like it's in a stronger position when my hips clear properly.
Not really trying to change your mind about your DD or what you teach. Just using some of your comments to make some points of my own in case others are interested in what Ted taught and what most of the top hitters I see do.
As softballphreak mentioned, it's not really about performing a big coil. It's more about the uninterrupted flow of energy or movement in the swing.
Here is Katie doing it using a wider stance.
