Dipping back knee

[cshilt]

Not really trying to change your mind about your DD or what you teach. Just using some of your comments to make some points of my own in case others are interested in what Ted taught and what most of the top hitters I see do.

I'm not sure if you're trying to agree with stiksdad or not. I haven't seen his daughter's swing, but I'm willing to bet that as a successful D1 hitter that she is getting coiled during her load. He's said before, slow to load - soft to toe touch. I imagine that "big coil" to him is how I picture it, picking up that leg and over-twisting the hips. What "over-twisting" means is open to interpretation, but to me it is anything that causes the weight to shift over the back leg and/or move the head in such a way as to disallow a "good two-eyed look" at the ball.

You like to use the Slaught side-arm video a lot, and while I agree that it is a good starting point for learning the sequence, I personally don't like the upright starting position. I went through 16 pages of swings on the model swings thread and I didn't see one hitter whose starting point had their feet less than should width apart. All were wider than shoulder width apart or longer (most quite longer).

It took me eight pages of looking through the model swings thread to find a hitter who significantly moved their head backwards when she picked up her stride foot. Even so, she kept her head in the midline of her body as she did.

I saw only one example of a hitter where the head drifted significantly away from the midline of the body and get close to moving over the back leg.

There were all sorts of different stances; open stances, closed stances, neutral stances. Almost universally the hitters had a balanced stance that resembled what SL videotaped of his daughter, where there was tilt in the upper body (nose over knees over toes).

There were all sorts of loading techniques; knee benders, leg lifters, no stride, short stride, long stride. They all keep the weight on the inside of the back leg. They all keep the head between the knees as they stride. Almost all of them, when they pick up their foot to stride stop moving backwards and go forward.

 

[Wellphyt]

The upright and relaxed starting position in the Slaught video emphasizes core activation. Notice how Slaught engages his core as he starts the sequence. FFS has pointed this action out many times in good hitters.

 

[cshilt]

The upright and relaxed starting position in the Slaught video emphasizes core activation. Notice how Slaught engages his core as he starts the sequence. FFS has pointed this action out many times in good hitters.

I teach starting in an upright and relaxed position as well, but once we lift that bat up off the shoulder to get into our stance we get balanced. We teach activating the core by bending at the waist and softening the knees.

I reviewed 51 pages worth of model swings. The only one I saw that had a standing straight starting position was hitting off a tee.

There was only one D1 college hitter who was not bent at the waist when the pitcher started her motion.

 

[stiksdad]

I'm not sure if you're trying to agree with stiksdad or not. I haven't seen his daughter's swing, but I'm willing to bet that as a successful D1 hitter that she is getting coiled during her load. He's said before, slow to load - soft to toe touch. I imagine that "big coil" to him is how I picture it, picking up that leg and over-twisting the hips. What "over-twisting" means is open to interpretation, but to me it is anything that causes the weight to shift over the back leg and/or move the head in such a way as to disallow a "good two-eyed look" at the ball.

You like to use the Slaught side-arm video a lot, and while I agree that it is a good starting point for learning the sequence, I personally don't like the upright starting position. I went through 16 pages of swings on the model swings thread and I didn't see one hitter whose starting point had their feet less than should width apart. All were wider than shoulder width apart or longer (most quite longer).

It took me eight pages of looking through the model swings thread to find a hitter who significantly moved their head backwards when she picked up her stride foot. Even so, she kept her head in the midline of her body as she did.

I saw only one example of a hitter where the head drifted significantly away from the midline of the body and get close to moving over the back leg.

There were all sorts of different stances; open stances, closed stances, neutral stances. Almost universally the hitters had a balanced stance that resembled what SL videotaped of his daughter, where there was tilt in the upper body (nose over knees over toes).

There were all sorts of loading techniques; knee benders, leg lifters, no stride, short stride, long stride. They all keep the weight on the inside of the back leg. They all keep the head between the knees as they stride. Almost all of them, when they pick up their foot to stride stop moving backwards and go forward.

You explained it better then me, thanks.

 

[Wellphyt]

I teach starting in an upright and relaxed position as well, but once we lift that bat up off the shoulder to get into our stance we get balanced. We teach activating the core by bending at the waist and softening the knees.

I reviewed 51 pages worth of model swings. The only one I saw that had a standing straight starting position was hitting off a tee.

There was only one D1 college hitter who was not bent at the waist when the pitcher started her motion.

In the 51 pages of model swings you went through, how many hitters did you see who were doing a drill to work on their sequence

"It really doesn't matter where we start from; as long as we get to that good hitting position with timing."
-- Don Slaught

You should try different stances to find out which one you can easily and consistently get to that good hitting position. In a position where you're ready to swing the bat." -- Don Slaught


The sequence is the absolute. The batting stance is style. The drill strips away the style. The purpose of the drill is to teach the absolute. The hitter can then wrap their batting stance style around the sequence. For the most part I try and stay away from dictating to the player what their batting stance style should be.

My experience has been that FP instructors and coaches have a hard time separating style from technique. If can get very confusing discussing hitting when the two areas are blurred.

Last summer I attended a Danielle Lawrie clinic in which she demonstrated the feet together drill; or what I call the Babe Ruth drill. She said they did that hitting drill more than any other hitting drill when she played for the University of Washington.

 

[stiksdad]

In the 51 pages of model swings you went through, how many hitters did you see who were doing a drill to work on their sequence

"It really doesn't matter where we start from; as long as we get to that good hitting position with timing."
-- Don Slaught

You should try different stances to find out which one you can easily and consistently get to that good hitting position. In a position where you're ready to swing the bat." -- Don Slaught


The sequence is the absolute. The batting stance is style. The drill strips away the style. The purpose of the drill is to teach the absolute. The hitter can then wrap their batting stance style around the sequence. For the most part I try and stay away from dictating to the player what their batting stance style should be.

My experience has been that FP instructors and coaches have a hard time separating style from technique. If can get very confusing discussing hitting when the two areas are blurred.

Last summer I attended a Danielle Lawrie clinic in which she demonstrated the feet together drill; or what I call the Babe Ruth drill. She said they did that hitting drill more than any other hitting drill when she played for the University of Washington.

Great we can debate this forever, a simple question I have 14 players who have been instructed by me who are now playing at the collegiate level, that number will double next year. I believe there are no absolutes only kids who seek help and want to play at the next level, I teach them to their strength for a third of what most in my area get. How many have you helped put in school?

 

[Wellphyt]

Great we can debate this forever, a simple question I have 14 players who have been instructed by me who are now playing at the collegiate level, that number will double next year. I believe there are no absolutes only kids who seek help and want to play at the next level, I teach them to their strength for a third of what most in my area get. How many have you helped put in school?

All the kids I have worked with are in High School like my DD. If some go on to play in college it will be because of their athleticism, work ethic and love of the game, more than it will be because of something I did. In addition, all of the kids I have worked with have also had other coaches during their playing career who have also no doubt contributed to their development.

Would love to hear more about what and how you teach given your belief that there are no absolutes to hitting.

 

[stiksdad]

All the kids I have worked with are in High School like my DD. If some go on to play in college it will be because of their athleticism, work ethic and love of the game, more than it will be because of something I did. In addition, all of the kids I have worked with have also had other coaches during their playing career who have also no doubt contributed to their development.

Would love to hear more about what and how you teach given your belief that there are no absolutes to hitting.

Excellent response I applaud you for giving the players and others there proper dues. Hard work most certainly pays off.

 

[rdbass]

All the kids I have worked with are in High School like my DD. If some go on to play in college it will be because of their athleticism, work ethic and love of the game, more than it will be because of something I did. In addition, all of the kids I have worked with have also had other coaches during their playing career who have also no doubt contributed to their development. Wellphyt,This is so well said.

 

[Wellphyt]

Knightsb: Here is a video of my DD starting with her feet close together to emphasize the sequence. I'm throwing windmill from behind a screen about 25' away. I always throw windmill when I pitch so that the kids can get comfortable with the timing of their sequence. I always try and utilize drills that can be adapted to live pitching in order to get the kids used to swinging at a pitched ball. My experience has been that tee swings and slow motion dry swings almost always break down against live game pitching.

Ignore my DD's back leg. Her rear knee is misaligned with her hip, giving the appearance that she is turning it in when she is really not. IOW, her rear knee is always turned in. When she bends at the knee, it turns in even more. It's the way she was born; nothing I can do about it.

As I've said before, I feel like my DD's hands lag behind a little bit too much. When I compare her swing to the pros, I see her hips finishing about a frame or so, prior to her hands getting the barrel to contact. She needs to do a better job of using her hands IMO. Also, now that she seems to be getting comfortable with the sequence, we will be working on quieting down her movements some.