DD Getting frozen out of High School ball. Any options during that time

[whiporee]

The way you appear to view HS sports, why even keep score? At some point in life you have to learn that if somebody is better than you at something, then they will reap the benefits..doesn't make you a bad person, it's just life

You keep score because it's funner that way.

At the same time, at some point in life you learn that you do have to wait your turn sometimes. That even if you're "better (and better is a very subjective term, even in softball pitching)" you sometimes your gratification ends up being delayed. And that sometimes the reason someone is ahead of you isn't based on one thing -- it could be based on the overall good of the organization. I might have better sales numbers that Johnny, but Johnny gets the promotion because he's been with the organization longer and my boss needs to show that longevity is rewarded. There's merit in that idea. And because a coach or a manager looks at more than one specific thing -- Johnny may play better with management than me. Might bitch less. Might help with younger staff more. Likewise a senior pitcher might be more welcoming to the rest of the team; might help them with their sings or skills, while the freshman might just focus on their pitching. There's merit in rewarding longevity, and being "better" doesn't always come down to having a more effective riseball.

 

[_MIA_]

You keep score because it's funner that way.

At the same time, at some point in life you learn that you do have to wait your turn sometimes. That even if you're "better (and better is a very subjective term, even in softball pitching)" you sometimes your gratification ends up being delayed. And that sometimes the reason someone is ahead of you isn't based on one thing -- it could be based on the overall good of the organization. I might have better sales numbers that Johnny, but Johnny gets the promotion because he's been with the organization longer and my boss needs to show that longevity is rewarded. There's merit in that idea. And because a coach or a manager looks at more than one specific thing -- Johnny may play better with management than me. Might bitch less. Might help with younger staff more. Likewise a senior pitcher might be more welcoming to the rest of the team; might help them with their sings or skills, while the freshman might just focus on their pitching. There's merit in rewarding longevity, and being "better" doesn't always come down to having a more effective riseball.

I hear what you are saying, but in the scenarios you give the company does "win", at least long term. All I am saying is that the decisions a coach makes, IMO, should maximize the ability for a team to win on the field. If playing a less talented kid goes towards that goal, then fine. I am just of the mind that in general softball is really an individual sport. You against the pitcher/batter, you against the fly ball/ground ball, etc. I don't really buy the whole intangible thing..winning breeds content..

 

[whiporee]

and before anybody says anything, I don't mean you win at all costs e.g. ignore academic rules,behavior, etc ...

I know you didn't mean that, but it would be a valid question. If you're willing to ignore longevity with the team, why would you care about academics? Or rules? If the best plays, then the best plays, right?

But even without going to that extreme, here's a scenario. You have two pitchers. One throws four pitches, averages seven Ks a game, has an ERA of about 4. Has been on the team for four years and has waited for her chance to start. Attended every practices, helps with fundraisers, is constantly welcoming and builds up the other girls. Almost like having another coach on the field. Her teammates love her and play hard for her, and her run support is about 6, and she's one of the team's best hitters.

The second is a freshman. Comes in with five pitches, strikes out about nine a game, and ERA of about 3. But she's shy, withdrawn, doesn't talk much. Doesn't do anything during practice except the required. Does take private lessons, but she is mainly about herself. None of the girls really know her that well, but she's nice enough. The team plays decent for her, but its more of a business relationship. Her run support is about 5, and she's near the bottom of the team in hitting.

The second pitcher is "better," but both put you position to win. Which is the better player for your team?

 

[_MIA_]

I know you didn't mean that, but it would be a valid question. If you're willing to ignore longevity with the team, why would you care about academics? Or rules? If the best plays, then the best plays, right?

because there are things more important than winning, never said otherwise (well I guess it might have sounded like I said that but hopefully people don't think I am that much of a jerk.. ) . I just don't think rewarding longevity (when the difference in ability isn't close...) is one of them...If the difference isn't much (or there is no real difference at all), then sure play the older kid more, I have no issue with that. The sample size for a HS is such that if the difference is small enough, it probably won't make a big difference in the long run anyway.

 

[bmakj]

but the case described was not them being close. and a HC should neveer have an issue pulling a pitcher who is getting lit up. If Dd pitched, and was getting hammered, both she and I would want HC to pull, for her own good as well as that of team.

yes, all things close to equal, you go with seniority. but if there is a clear difference, play the more talented player more (not saying never play/pitch the player with seniority, btw, there is lots of gray area).

hope fundraising does not factor into PT. we just really dont do fundraising. DW would rather work some OT and write a check, then expend a lot of energy selling crapola to friends, family, coworkeers, the time spent it probably works out as a loss.

 

[radness]

hope fundraising does not factor into PT. we just really dont do fundraising. DW would rather work some OT and write a check, then expend a lot of energy selling crapola to friends, family, coworkeers, the time spent it probably works out as a loss.

Well...as we can read diversity in the perspectives on who plays...
And longevity over talent may get the playing time.
Its very reasonable to add that
Parents participating in boosters could earn playing time.
Its just another observation to effort supporting the program.

_______________

I will say this to what effort can do.

Have seen players put in more effort in 1 season than others had put in 4.

 

[bmakj]

Well...as we can read diversity in the perspectives on who plays...
And longevity over talent may get the playing time.
Its very reasonable to add that
Parents participating in boosters could earn playing time.
Its just another observation to effort supporting the program.

_______________

I will say this to what effort can do.

Have seen players put in more effort in 1 season than others had put in 4.

no problem supporting the org, will volunteer if there is need to do maintenance, prep, etc. but selling crapola to me is just stupid, would rather write a check (which supports the org). now if it is something halfway decent (DDs team has done pie sale leading up to thanksgiving, delivered right before, at least it was useful), we will do some, but scented candles, etc. is just crapola.

 

[texasheat]

It's always good to show a little empathy for the other side in these things, if you can muster. I'd never criticize a coach who gave upperclassmen starts over freshmen, nor for giving a senior the chance to succeed or fail. The coach's "I can't" comment could have just as easily been "I can't do that to her." While I don't know the particulars of it, that playoff game might have been the last game the girl was ever going to pitch. I can't fault a coach for giving her every chance to go out on a high note.

Couldn't the same thing be said for the other Seniors on the team? Like the Sr. SS who has started every game and torn up 12 pairs of pants and gone through 4 tubes of Neosporin diving for balls? Or the Sr. LF that routinely crashes into fences trying to catch fly balls? Shouldn't you show a little empathy for them by giving them a fair chance to succeed by starting the Pitcher that gives them the best chance to go further in the playoffs and therefore reward them for 4 years of blood, sweat, and tears? Shouldn't the coach try to let them go out on a high note? There are more than just 2 parties involved here. It's not just Sr. Pitcher vs Freshman pitcher. It's the entire team that is going to be out of the playoffs because of the Sr. Pitcher being shown favoritism.

 

[diamond14]

The whims of people never fail to leave me aghast. DD former HS SB head coach was a tyrant in the worst sense, meaning that her ego was so frail that any perceived deviation from "the program" was cause for retribution. As an example in DD soph year, second to last game is "senior nite" (where seniors are honored-duh!). Team plays a weaker opponent and thoroughly lashes them. Coach made minimal effort to get every senior a few innings, normal starter- whole game, two subs about half game (more than usual), one girl gets two at bats AND THEN is pinch runned, last senior (who was not awful, but definitely not starting material)- no ABs, no field time, no pinch running. ON SENIOR NITE, where the score was a mercy game and pitcher threw one hitter!
Despicable human being, glad she left and did not return after COVID season.

 

[whiporee]

Couldn't the same thing be said for the other Seniors on the team? Like the Sr. SS who has started every game and torn up 12 pairs of pants and gone through 4 tubes of Neosporin diving for balls? Or the Sr. LF that routinely crashes into fences trying to catch fly balls? Shouldn't you show a little empathy for them by giving them a fair chance to succeed by starting the Pitcher that gives them the best chance to go further in the playoffs and therefore reward them for 4 years of blood, sweat, and tears? Shouldn't the coach try to let them go out on a high note? There are more than just 2 parties involved here. It's not just Sr. Pitcher vs Freshman pitcher. It's the entire team that is going to be out of the playoffs because of the Sr. Pitcher being shown favoritism.

If you polled them, my bet is every senior on that team would rather take their chances with the teammate who has been with them for four years than the one who has been there two months.

The only people who would be upset about the freshman not playing are the freshman's parents. Probably not even the girl herself. Players want to believe their history will be respected, not thrown aside for a newer model.

And because this hasn't been mentioned, I'll bring it up. What if the coach starts the wonder freshman, and she wilts? Gives up five in the first? Doesn't experience count for anything, or are we only looking at fastball speed?