CrowHopping, Replanting, etc. - Not being called by Umps

[Cat5]

International (ISF) rules allow women to leap in fastpitch. In almost all other softball-playing countries leaping is part of basic pitching instruction to young girls.

 

[PEPPERS]

I disagree with the article below for two main reasons. One the coaches who taught players to conform to the rules and the kids who worked hard to perfect their delivery to be within the rules would IMO would be punished for teaching and following the rules.

I was at a facility where they were teaching 3 young ladies to pitch by leaping. When I asked why teach an illegal delivery? Answer because umps rarely call it.

Another the currently legal delivery motion through studies has shown combined with repetitive motion has shown to cause injuries. Leaping IMO would add to the stress factor which would in young people would/could result in more injuries some of which may show up in later life such as arthritis and other medical problems. These studies have also shown no advantage gain by leaping.

I hope my DD has a long healthy life after softball.

Here it is;

With its exceptionally high visibility as a sport for girls and women, it would be fair to assume that everybody participating is being treated equally. However decades ago, as in basketball and other sports , restrictions were put in girls softball rules that do not apply to their male counterparts. Presumably the thinking was to limit girls aggressiveness...to make the sport gentler and "less risky" than for boys. Today, two such outdated rules remain that restrict girl and women softball pitchers, but do not apply to men. We recommend that the NCAA and the ASA reconsider, and hopefully substantially modify or remove the fastpitch rules pertaining to:

NO LEAPING, REQUIRING THE "TOE DRAG"

REAR FOOT ON, OR TOUCHING AGAINST, THE PITCHING RUBBER

The image and reputation of softball, not just in the U.S. but around the world, has been tarnished by the dramatic increase in the number of illegal pitch calls recently, for the most part caused by the "leaping" violation...not keeping the rear foot in contact with the ground until the forward / stride foot lands. In many cases, the calls were confusing to the pitcher, her coach, and in the case of televised games, even the announcers. Pitchers who have often gone through many years of competitive pitching without being called for the violation are now experiencing strict enforcement by umpires. Certainly, if a rule exists, it needs to be complied with. And pitchers should be trained and coached to make certain they do not violate current rules. However, we feel that both the "leaping" rule and the requirement for the pitcher's rear foot to be on (or touching against) the pitching rubber are not longer necessary in girls' and women's fastpitch softball.

TOE DRAG REQUIREMENT - With respect to leaping (having both feet in their air at the same time), here is how the ASA (Amateur Softball Association) rule is different for females vs. males. Men can leap, women cannot:

- (Women’s and all JO Play) Pushing off and dragging the pivot foot in contact with the ground is required. If a hole has been created, the pivot foot may drag no higher than the level plane of the ground.


- (Men’s) Pushing off and dragging the pivot foot in contact with the ground, or if both feet are in the air, having the toes of the pivot foot in the downward direction is required.

REAR FOOT IN CONTACT WITH THE RUBBER - Because a pitcher can transfer her weight from her rear to front foot to get better acceleration or "explode" off the pitching rubber, the requirement for the rear foot to be on or against the rubber can restrict her speed. Here is how the ASA rule differs between girls and men:

1. (Male) The pitcher shall take a position with their pivot foot in contact with the pitcher's plate and their non-pivot foot in contact with or behind the pitcher's plate.

2. (Female) The pitcher shall take a position with both feet in contact with the pitcher's plate.
_________________________________

With this obvious disparity in these pitching rules for males and females, we encourage to ASA and the NCAA to lead the way. Do what is right. Forget about what the thinking was when rules were written "back in the old days". Make fastpitch rules for pitchers equal and consistent regardless of gender.

 

[Hillhouse]

Hi Bill,

Here is an out take from an 'opinion' page from an instructors website. He is not the only one of them out there that have that same thought in mind.

Here it is;

With its exceptionally high visibility as a sport for girls and women, it would be fair to assume that everybody participating is being treated equally. However decades ago, as in basketball and other sports , restrictions were put in girls softball rules that do not apply to their male counterparts. Presumably the thinking was to limit girls aggressiveness...to make the sport gentler and "less risky" than for boys. Today, two such outdated rules remain that restrict girl and women softball pitchers, but do not apply to men. We recommend that the NCAA and the ASA reconsider, and hopefully substantially modify or remove the fastpitch rules pertaining to:

NO LEAPING, REQUIRING THE "TOE DRAG"

REAR FOOT ON, OR TOUCHING AGAINST, THE PITCHING RUBBER

The image and reputation of softball, not just in the U.S. but around the world, has been tarnished by the dramatic increase in the number of illegal pitch calls recently, for the most part caused by the "leaping" violation...not keeping the rear foot in contact with the ground until the forward / stride foot lands. In many cases, the calls were confusing to the pitcher, her coach, and in the case of televised games, even the announcers. Pitchers who have often gone through many years of competitive pitching without being called for the violation are now experiencing strict enforcement by umpires. Certainly, if a rule exists, it needs to be complied with. And pitchers should be trained and coached to make certain they do not violate current rules. However, we feel that both the "leaping" rule and the requirement for the pitcher's rear foot to be on (or touching against) the pitching rubber are not longer necessary in girls' and women's fastpitch softball.

TOE DRAG REQUIREMENT - With respect to leaping (having both feet in their air at the same time), here is how the ASA (Amateur Softball Association) rule is different for females vs. males. Men can leap, women cannot:

- (Women’s and all JO Play) Pushing off and dragging the pivot foot in contact with the ground is required. If a hole has been created, the pivot foot may drag no higher than the level plane of the ground.


- (Men’s) Pushing off and dragging the pivot foot in contact with the ground, or if both feet are in the air, having the toes of the pivot foot in the downward direction is required.

REAR FOOT IN CONTACT WITH THE RUBBER - Because a pitcher can transfer her weight from her rear to front foot to get better acceleration or "explode" off the pitching rubber, the requirement for the rear foot to be on or against the rubber can restrict her speed. Here is how the ASA rule differs between girls and men:

1. (Male) The pitcher shall take a position with their pivot foot in contact with the pitcher's plate and their non-pivot foot in contact with or behind the pitcher's plate.

2. (Female) The pitcher shall take a position with both feet in contact with the pitcher's plate.
_________________________________

With this obvious disparity in these pitching rules for males and females, we encourage to ASA and the NCAA to lead the way. Do what is right. Forget about what the thinking was when rules were written "back in the old days". Make fastpitch rules for pitchers equal and consistent regardless of gender.

All due respect Hal, what does this have to do with your statement about the pitching rules being the reason men's fastpitch is struggling? I don't agree with this person's opinion that is has to do with aggressiveness, and quite frankly, I think it's ridiculous that there's 2 separate rules in the USA (which is the ONLY country on the planet with 2 different rules for the genders). But to say its about aggressiveness is flat out silly. The men's rule was changed for one reason only by ASA: MONEY. The mens game was dying and the rule was "relaxed" to GET more males doing it and to KEEP more males doing it.

The rule today is antiquated for girls. It needs changed.... I cannot believe I'm saying this but God bless the ISF for doing this.

ASA doesn't have to change the rule for females to keep the numbers up. Girls have the allure of College softball and maybe the Olympics. Men have... zero. So, the only thing they could do to keep men alive is allow for relaxed pitching rules. And to a degree it's worked... the age division nationals are BOOMING (40+, 45+, 50+, 55+ and even the 60+). So much so, even other governing bodies are getting in on the act of having Masters divisions. This could not occur if the rules were the same. The guys would just hang it up.

The other thing here, do not confuse "leap" with crow hop. Crow hop is not allowed but the men don't care and its helped to level the field with the bats and balls. Men still want 1-0 games, not 6-5 scores. The only way to have that in 2013 is to allow the pitchers to do something to take the "advantage" back.

By the way, I don't know anyone in the ISC "advocating" the change. Please don't speak about such things... the ISC doesn't have a girls or female division. It's a men's fastpitch organization only.

I found it funny how you said allowing the leap is never going to happen when the WORLD governing body already has. Folks, it's coming. Leaping (maybe not crow hopping) but LEAPING is going to be allowed soon. Then we can all wait for the arguments about whether the pitcher is replanting or just leaping. Nevermind teaching the girls to hit better, not to leave early when on base or keeping slappers in the batters box... lets just worry about the pitcher. BTW... yes I know I'm biased.


Bill

 

[halskinner]

Hello again Bill,

What I posted I copied from an instructor's website. Didnt use his name but I can stear you to it if you want. Glad to hear the Men's game is making some kind of comeback.

 

[Cannonball]

My dd just played in Italy. Most of the pitchers that her team faced were from Australia. Talk about leaping, one pitcher was clearing the circle with their front foot. It was a little difficult at first to get used to but, to be honest, one of the best things that the coaching staff did was not make a big deal about it. The players accepted it and just played.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

A local team, 14U, is at Premier nationals and just had an IP called twice on them. It was for re-planting.

 

[Hillhouse]

My dd just played in Italy. Most of the pitchers that her team faced were from Australia. Talk about leaping, one pitcher was clearing the circle with their front foot. It was a little difficult at first to get used to but, to be honest, one of the best things that the coaching staff did was not make a big deal about it. The players accepted it and just played.

Again, the USA is the only country in the world who has a different pitching rule (ASA) than the international governing body (ISF). Players from other countries will pitch the ISF way, which allows hopping. The next argument that will ensue is "That girl is not leaping, she's crowhopping!" The truth is, most umpires (especially at the young ages) are not very good. Their strike zones are bad and many don't know the actual softball rules. With this in mind, many umpires don't know the difference between a leap and crowhop. So, it's easier to just ban it all.

I continually shake my head at how worried people are about what a pitcher is doing, while they swing Titanium alloy bats against a polycore ball. If people want 1950's pitching rules, they should use 1950's bats and balls too. I chuckle at the posts about how a daughter struck out using her $400 bat because the pitcher was hopping. Yes, I realize I'm in the minority.

Bill

 

[halskinner]

Softball was invented in the USA. The ASA is the governing body of softball in the USA. The ASA has a ruylebook for the sport of softball.

If a different organization wants to play a sport and call it 'Softball', they should play by the rtules, ALL THE RULES. If they want to play under different rules, they should call their sport something else.

Have everyone everywhere enforce all the pitching regulations and then lets see who has the best teams, pitchers, batters, etc.

The arguement of hopped up bats to justify not playing by the rules doesnt hold water. It's still an excuse to not play by the rules. I dont care how much a bat costs, if I dont let the batter get a decent hit, the bat is irrelevant.

Dominant pitching has always beaten dominant hitting, been that way forever.

That's just this ole pitchers opinion.

 

[Hillhouse]

Softball was invented in the USA. The ASA is the governing body of softball in the USA. The ASA has a ruylebook for the sport of softball.

Sometimes I wonder if you even read what other people write. What does the games birth place have to do with anything, other than showing the Ugly American syndrome? So what if it was invented here. USA is not the world champs in any age or gender of softball right now, it's become a global game.

If a different organization wants to play a sport and call it 'Softball', they should play by the rtules, ALL THE RULES. If they want to play under different rules, they should call their sport something else.

So, ASA is the beacon of truth for all of softball huh? A lot of governing bodies don't like ASA for various reasons and have their own rules. Some are involving pitching rules, some involve things like not wanting to have the double base at 1st. Some are allowing a 2 out catcher rule to speed up the game, etc. etc. So, by your rationale, high school softball should be called something different because they have different rules than ASA? Ok... that makes sense (sarcasm).

Have everyone everywhere enforce all the pitching regulations and then lets see who has the best teams, pitchers, batters, etc.

The arguement of hopped up bats to justify not playing by the rules doesnt hold water. It's still an excuse to not play by the rules. I dont care how much a bat costs, if I dont let the batter get a decent hit, the bat is irrelevant.

Not a justification, it's an explanation. There's a difference. Kind of like one of those things about how players have their own ways of Policing the games. When a pitcher intentionally throws at a player, the other teams' pitcher retaliates. Not fair and not in the rules but it's how the game has evolved. The hopping and so forth is an evolution of the game.

Dominant pitching has always beaten dominant hitting, been that way forever.

True Hal, except those days and games are dwindling rapidly. The scores in the NCAA finals are higher today than yesteryear. The Homerun totals are up. Etc. Etc. What used to be a pop fly to center is now a 250 ft home run. The days of the dominant pitcher are slowly winding down.

That's just this ole pitchers opinion.

Yes, and an opinion from someone who clearly hasn't pitched since the days of the "banned bat list" have been created. Not sure when the last game you pitched was but I can promise you....... A LOT HAS CHANGED SINCE THEN. I realize you teach your Jedi Mind tricks which may or may not have some validity to them in some cases but, Hal I think you are quite removed from the reality of the sport. Pitchers wear FACEMASKS now because of the the equipment.

 

[Ken B]

Ha!,
Every major sport I can think of has different rule sets. We can't make up different names for each because of this rule or that. Rules serve different purposes to different people for different things. Differences happen and it helps to be less indifferent about them. Just saying...