CrowHopping, Replanting, etc. - Not being called by Umps

[8isgreat]

Thanks for the replies - Halskinner, that is a great point - two steps is the way to go when it comes to protesting.
RubberBiscuit - I'm now singing your poem to "London Bridge is Falling Down"...hahaha

I guess, knowing that we play "By the rules" should be sufficient. But sometimes I just wanna yell "NO FAIR!"...My daughter watches every little nuance of each pitcher whether she's playing or not. She learns what NOT to do more often than not. Saw a girl at a local place who apparently just got a full ride - she leaves air between her and the pivot foot every pitch.

I just don't want my daughter to become the "If you can't beat em, join em". Which I won't allow, so I guess we're safe!

Thanks again!

 

[smddad]

Too many times coaches spend too much time and energy worrying about what the other pitcher is doing. It's a waste of time and energy. Turn your focus on playing offense instead of the other team's pitcher. You aren't going to change it, it's been going on for years. Normally the umpires don't call it unless it's obvious. The only thing I see happening when coaches worry about the other team's pitcher is that they get ticked off and it takes them out of the game. Control the one thing you can...your reaction.

 

[curiousgeorge]

Too many times coaches spend too much time and energy worrying about what the other pitcher is doing. It's a waste of time and energy. Turn your focus on playing offense instead of the other team's pitcher. You aren't going to change it, it's been going on for years. Normally the umpires don't call it unless it's obvious. The only thing I see happening when coaches worry about the other team's pitcher is that they get ticked off and it takes them out of the game. Control the one thing you can...your reaction.

Well said smddad. It's amazing how much time is spent going over what the other pitcher is doing. I have gone to my DD's PC games a couple times (men's fastpitch) and while it's not "legal" under the rules to crow hop, nobody cares. the hitters all say the same thing, "the ball still has to cross the plate". And they acknowledge the the leaping is the pitchers way of catching up with the 2013 bats/balls. As as her coach says, it's funny how coaches only worry about pitchers but never the slappers running out of the box or runners leaving early.

cg

 

[halskinner]

And they wonder why the Mens game has died off and is continuing top die off.. No one cares isnt the case here. The umpires in ISC simply dont enforce the rules. They Do enforce the rules in ASA, NSA, etc competition.

Lots of former Mens ISC pitcher out there pushing hard to try and get rules either changed or deleted from the rulebooks so that the womens and girls games will be just like the mens mens game. You even hear some of them talking about it on this board.


Allow leaping, allow crow hopping, drop thje section that requires the pivot toe to stay in contact with the ground and allow the stride foot to start as far behind the rubber as they want, just like the mens game.

None of that is ever gonna happen. But they are still gonna try. When the pitchers that have followed their advioce get to the nationals, THEY MIGHT JUST GET A VERY RUDE AWAKENING. And I will roll on the floor laughing when they do.

Play by the rules, its the smart thing to do.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

Well said smddad. It's amazing how much time is spent going over what the other pitcher is doing. I have gone to my DD's PC games a couple times (men's fastpitch) and while it's not "legal" under the rules to crow hop, nobody cares. the hitters all say the same thing, "the ball still has to cross the plate". And they acknowledge the the leaping is the pitchers way of catching up with the 2013 bats/balls. As as her coach says, it's funny how coaches only worry about pitchers but never the slappers running out of the box or runners leaving early.

cg

I also advocate coaches NOT making a big ordeal within games. If you identify it, mention it once to the ump staff and then let it go. It is the ump staffs responsibility at that point. It will unnecessarily distract your team if it continues to percolate.

The best handling is a scenario like this: Fanatic-dad in the stands sees the other pitcher skipping. He gets snippy-loud about it. Coach recognizes this. Tells snippy-dad to zip it. Coach has a quick conference with the ump. Issue concluded by the team.

BUT I DO NOT advocate letting cheaters cheat. Ignore rules and you have chaos.

Crow-hopping IS an advantage. Anyone who accepts an illegal advantage against themselves should probably seek some couch time.

 

[left turn]

Well said smddad. It's amazing how much time is spent going over what the other pitcher is doing. I have gone to my DD's PC games a couple times (men's fastpitch) and while it's not "legal" under the rules to crow hop, nobody cares. the hitters all say the same thing, "the ball still has to cross the plate". And they acknowledge the the leaping is the pitchers way of catching up with the 2013 bats/balls. As as her coach says, it's funny how coaches only worry about pitchers but never the slappers running out of the box or runners leaving early.
cg

I understand this argument, "They don't call it, so why worry about it." There is a usefully practical aspect to that.

But what would happen if the first baseman just stood near the bag to take a throw from the infielder and still got the "out" call. Contact with the bag is a rule to be awarded the out when taking a throw from the fielder. So the umpires (via common practice) determine the important parts of the rule book and ignore the rest. If the umpires merely choose which rules to enforce, it turns the rule book into a book of suggestions.

If it isn't a real rule, it needs to be removed.

 

[Hillhouse]

And they wonder why the Mens game has died off and is continuing top die off.. No one cares isnt the case here. The umpires in ISC simply dont enforce the rules. They Do enforce the rules in ASA, NSA, etc competition.

Lots of former Mens ISC pitcher out there pushing hard to try and get rules either changed or deleted from the rulebooks so that the womens and girls games will be just like the mens mens game. You even hear some of them talking about it on this board.


Allow leaping, allow crow hopping, drop thje section that requires the pivot toe to stay in contact with the ground and allow the stride foot to start as far behind the rubber as they want, just like the mens game.

None of that is ever gonna happen. But they are still gonna try. When the pitchers that have followed their advioce get to the nationals, THEY MIGHT JUST GET A VERY RUDE AWAKENING. And I will roll on the floor laughing when they do.

Play by the rules, its the smart thing to do.

Now I've heard it all.

 

[8isgreat]

i'm not coaching - BUT - I am the one pointing it out to the coaches - so i'll stop. It's just once a pitcher, now a pitcher's mom - we tend to notice these things and sometimes can't keep it to ourselves.

And i wanted to add that our Coaches have never once made a huge deal - only brought it to the umps attention - and let them deal with the situation. It's just never been anything more than that.

 

[halskinner]

Now I've heard it all.

Hi Bill,

Here is an out take from an 'opinion' page from an instructors website. He is not the only one of them out there that have that same thought in mind.

Here it is;

With its exceptionally high visibility as a sport for girls and women, it would be fair to assume that everybody participating is being treated equally. However decades ago, as in basketball and other sports , restrictions were put in girls softball rules that do not apply to their male counterparts. Presumably the thinking was to limit girls aggressiveness...to make the sport gentler and "less risky" than for boys. Today, two such outdated rules remain that restrict girl and women softball pitchers, but do not apply to men. We recommend that the NCAA and the ASA reconsider, and hopefully substantially modify or remove the fastpitch rules pertaining to:

NO LEAPING, REQUIRING THE "TOE DRAG"

REAR FOOT ON, OR TOUCHING AGAINST, THE PITCHING RUBBER

The image and reputation of softball, not just in the U.S. but around the world, has been tarnished by the dramatic increase in the number of illegal pitch calls recently, for the most part caused by the "leaping" violation...not keeping the rear foot in contact with the ground until the forward / stride foot lands. In many cases, the calls were confusing to the pitcher, her coach, and in the case of televised games, even the announcers. Pitchers who have often gone through many years of competitive pitching without being called for the violation are now experiencing strict enforcement by umpires. Certainly, if a rule exists, it needs to be complied with. And pitchers should be trained and coached to make certain they do not violate current rules. However, we feel that both the "leaping" rule and the requirement for the pitcher's rear foot to be on (or touching against) the pitching rubber are not longer necessary in girls' and women's fastpitch softball.

TOE DRAG REQUIREMENT - With respect to leaping (having both feet in their air at the same time), here is how the ASA (Amateur Softball Association) rule is different for females vs. males. Men can leap, women cannot:

- (Women’s and all JO Play) Pushing off and dragging the pivot foot in contact with the ground is required. If a hole has been created, the pivot foot may drag no higher than the level plane of the ground.


- (Men’s) Pushing off and dragging the pivot foot in contact with the ground, or if both feet are in the air, having the toes of the pivot foot in the downward direction is required.

REAR FOOT IN CONTACT WITH THE RUBBER - Because a pitcher can transfer her weight from her rear to front foot to get better acceleration or "explode" off the pitching rubber, the requirement for the rear foot to be on or against the rubber can restrict her speed. Here is how the ASA rule differs between girls and men:

1. (Male) The pitcher shall take a position with their pivot foot in contact with the pitcher's plate and their non-pivot foot in contact with or behind the pitcher's plate.

2. (Female) The pitcher shall take a position with both feet in contact with the pitcher's plate.
_________________________________

With this obvious disparity in these pitching rules for males and females, we encourage to ASA and the NCAA to lead the way. Do what is right. Forget about what the thinking was when rules were written "back in the old days". Make fastpitch rules for pitchers equal and consistent regardless of gender.

 

[Stand an]

I see leaping, crow hopping, rear foot not touching the pitching rubber all the time in my area. U12-u14 and wiaa umped h/s games. It is a rule that no one seems to understand.

I am not fully versed on every rule in the book, the darn thing reads like a stereo manual. Eventually though.