back leg, front leg and hands

[mann]

Originally Posted by softballphreak
The key words here are "stop" and "redirect". The force isn't actually stopped, it is redirected. The energy is still used, it doesn't stop. There is no brake, no "block".

I really like your quote here softball. I visulize the same movements when explained push block push. Its just the WORDS one uses sometimes.
But, i can clearly see puhols pushing that leg back.

Nice bit of EDITING RED HOT. My bad on filling in the blanks responding to THESE words

What I can do is have my front toes on the ground to balance, then lift my front foot as I swing, hit it using my rear leg and back

 

[HYP]

Albert's back foot has no weight on it, while his front leg is still bent. The front leg then straightens. Do you really think the hip is finishing its rotation from back side momentum?

Yes I do with the help of the firm lead leg.

Do you really think after the aggressive push forward onto his front foot, that there is no push back?

Yes, I believe that because the push from the back is not a true push forward.

As I said in the OP, the hands, shoulders and bat make the bulk of their movement toward the ball after the back heel is up. But, NO, you don't wait for the push back. The bat and hands are in motion before, and during, the push back.

So, how long does it take for your swing to happen?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Thank you. It now no longer about the physics. It is now WHAT (Mlb hitters)DO THEY DO.

But....seriously......how would you know?

Just because a major leaguers foot is on the ground.....doesn't mean he isn't doing what Nadal is doing. Nadal can do exactly what he shows with or without his foot on the ground.

Because the entire engine is in his rear hip and leg.

He doesn't have to shift then swing like you teach, to generate power.

Neither do major league hitters.

disclaimer - got this from another site, did some editing so feelings would not get hurt. Personally, I think this quote says it all.

Whether you are an advocate of Push-Block-Push, or of hitting with an emphasis of powering the swing from the backside, the reality is that the front-side in a two-legged swing is used in a manner that generates ground reaction forces that are transferred to the barrel. IMO the questions really should be more about where the focus should be. Should one attempt to slam themselves into their frontside in hopes of generating rotation (and by the way, one can shove themselves into their frontside without realizing rotation) … or should the frontside be thought more of as having a role of catching the swing/shift and supplying balance ... despite the fact that it does generate ground reaction forces? Should the sequence be to “Shift THEN Swing” or to “Pivot the Swing”? Either way … ground reaction forces relative to the front-side are present. IMO the discussion shouldn’t be about the existence of ground reaction forces relative to the frontside, but more about where the focus is.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

The key words here are "stop" and "redirect". The force isn't actually stopped, it is redirected. The energy is still used, it doesn't stop. There is no brake, no "block".

IMO, one 'could' describe the actions of 'push', 'block', 'push' in either a swing with a focus on "Shift THEN Swing" or a swing with a focus on "Shift AND Swing" ... or better yet, a swing with a focus of "Pivot the Swing". Personally I think the discussion would be roped in by focusing more on the sequence.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Nadal(gif up top) and one-legged golfer is supplying all the power with rear leg/hip. Where is their block to redirect the force? Nadal hits the ball with one leg sometimes, another times two legs. How come the ball flys off the racket with equal force. How can he generate that much force with his foot off the ground while hittting the ball back at his opponent? This particular gif, he has no block.


Ty Ken for not closing this thread.

Very true .... which is why I stated earlier that one can attempt to learn critical synchronization skills from one-legged swings.

Many first feel down-right silly performing one-legged swings ... and that IMO is where the value is ... in emphasizing the foolishness of an inferior swing sequence.

 

[softballphreak]

So, there is now no "Block" in the Push, Block, Push model?

I don't like the word "block" in the model. That model is too simple, IMO. But I do believe I understand what jbooth is saying. An analogy there would be like me trying to explain English to a German that doesn't understand English. I can start the conversation but as soon as he asks a question or says anything in German I would be lost.

 

[Alan Snedeker]

Have you heard of the kinetic link or chain that many people with PhD's in physics and human movement have defined?

If not, you need to learn about it. If you have read it, do you comprehend it?

Based upon this post, it appears that you haven't or don't, and that makes it difficult to respond to you.

I understand kinetic link just fine. I thought I asked some pretty straight forward questions.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Even you don't describe a push. You are describing a catch or enough force to create dynamic balance. A push would be a force applied to move something, to drive or impel. Not a force to stop something from moving.

I’m a supporter of the front-side ‘catching’. Have gone back-and-forth over the years of thinking in terms of the front foot ‘catching’ or the front thigh ‘catching’. It's a mentality I learned from some golfers.

Despite that … you can’t ‘catch’ with the front-side, if there wasn’t first a ‘shift’ … or a ‘push’. Hence the first ‘push’ in PBP.

In ‘catching’, the front leg will stabilize/resist forward movement in an attempt to keep the weight back … and in a sense it will ‘block’ forward movement. Further resisting of forward movement will result in the front leg straightening … and some refer to this as a ‘push’.

The action can be completely reactionary. The emphasis can be completely centered wrt the rearside. Yet one can still speak of a Push-Block-Push. The issue comes when one attempts to over-emphasize these actions.

For many … the actions of P-B-P need not be mentioned … because they are reactionary.

For those that have an issue in their swing relative to blocking, you can either attempt to solve the issue directly … or I’ve found an indirect approach can work well … and we saw just recently how one kid completely went from not using their lead-side, to using it, by simply using a cue of turning the barrel.

 

[HYP]

I’m a supporter of the front-side ‘catching’. Have gone back-and-forth over the years of thinking in terms of the front foot ‘catching’ or the front thigh ‘catching’. It's a mentality I learned from some golfers.

Despite that … you can’t ‘catch’ with the front-side, if there wasn’t first a ‘shift’ … or a ‘push’. Hence the first ‘push’ in PBP.

In ‘catching’, the front leg will stabilize/resist forward movement in an attempt to keep the weight back … and in a sense it will ‘block’ forward movement. Further resisting of forward movement will result in the front leg straightening … and some refer to this as a ‘push’.

The action can be completely reactionary. The emphasis can be completely centered wrt the rearside. Yet one can still speak of a Push-Block-Push. The issue comes when one attempts to over-emphasize these actions.

For many … the actions of P-B-P need not be mentioned … because they are reactionary.

For those that have an issue in their swing relative to blocking, you can either attempt to solve the issue directly … or I’ve found an indirect approach can work well … and we saw just recently how one kid completely went from not using their lead-side, to using it, by simply using a cue of turning the barrel.

And what does turning the barrel do? Does it force you to keep the weight back? Can you turn the barrel with the weight ON the front foot?

 

[HYP]

I’m a supporter of the front-side ‘catching’. Have gone back-and-forth over the years of thinking in terms of the front foot ‘catching’ or the front thigh ‘catching’. It's a mentality I learned from some golfers.

Despite that … you can’t ‘catch’ with the front-side, if there wasn’t first a ‘shift’ … or a ‘push’. Hence the first ‘push’ in PBP.

In ‘catching’, the front leg will stabilize/resist forward movement in an attempt to keep the weight back … and in a sense it will ‘block’ forward movement. Further resisting of forward movement will result in the front leg straightening … and some refer to this as a ‘push’.

The action can be completely reactionary. The emphasis can be completely centered wrt the rearside. Yet one can still speak of a Push-Block-Push. The issue comes when one attempts to over-emphasize these actions.

For many … the actions of P-B-P need not be mentioned … because they are reactionary.

For those that have an issue in their swing relative to blocking, you can either attempt to solve the issue directly … or I’ve found an indirect approach can work well … and we saw just recently how one kid completely went from not using their lead-side, to using it, by simply using a cue of turning the barrel.

How much of a push back do these guys have?