back leg, front leg and hands

[FiveFrameSwing]

And what does turning the barrel do? Does it force you to keep the weight back? Can you turn the barrel with the weight ON the front foot?

And this is exactly why the focus should be on the sequence.

If I attempt to turn the barrel by first shifting to my front foot, then I capture transition of the barrel by a completely different mechanic ... and I don't like it.

To me ... the lateral scrunch of the rear side, involved with the capture of barrel transition, has you "Pivot the Swing" ("Shift AND Swing") and not "Shift THEN Swing".

To me ... if I preach to my hitters how to capture transition of the barrel, then that goes a LONG way to winning the battle over "Shift AND Swing" Vs. "Shift THEN Swing".

 

[HYP]

And this is exactly why the focus should be on the sequence.

If I attempt to turn the barrel by first shifting to my front foot, then I capture transition of the barrel by a completely different mechanic ... and I don't like it.

To me ... the lateral scrunch of the rear side, involved with the capture of barrel transition, has you "Pivot the Swing" ("Shift AND Swing") and not "Shift THEN Swing".

To me ... if I preach to my hitters how to capture transition of the barrel, then that goes a LONG way to winning the battle over "Shift AND Swing" Vs. "Shift THEN Swing".

So, if your model is shift and swing. When is the barrel gone? Is it gone and powered before you weight the front leg?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

How much of a push back do these guys have?

Not sure how you want to quantify the "how much". Guessing you want to know if I see blocking. Yes, the front side is being used to catch the swing ... and physically that results in a block and push backwards. I don't believe that is their emphasis ... and I don't believe it should be their emphasis ... but it is present ... and I think it would be a mistake to focus on that being the focal point of the swing ... and I say that having made that mistake at one point.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I already said it is possible to hit off the back leg only. But, that isn't what happens with an MLB hitter who has two legs. He uses both, and they BOTH contribute force to power the bat.

Agreed in the context of the following: A pole vault pole (moving) and the pole vault box in which the pole is planted (stationary) both contribute force to bend the pole properly. In hitting, the rear leg/hip is the "pole" and actively supplies forward momentum and rotation, the front leg/hip is the pole vault box and when fixed in place (after heel plant), reacts to redirect and transfer the forward momentum and rotation initiated by the rear leg/hip.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

So, if your model is shift and swing. When is the barrel gone? Is it gone and powered before you weight the front leg?

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "gone" ... but I'll reply by assuming you mean "when is transition of the barrel captured" ... and this occurs before the front-side becomes fully weighted.

I should state that to me, the 'shift' is not the forward-by-coiling action ... which to me is more a loading, or gathering of energy phase. The shift follows that. The actual barrel transition is captured along with the actions wrt the backside involved in the lateral tilting process.

 

[redhotcoach]

Agreed in the context of the following: A pole vault pole (moving) and the pole vault box in which the pole is planted (stationary) both contribute force to bend the pole properly. In hitting, the rear leg/hip is the "pole" and actively supplies forward momentum and rotation, the front leg/hip is the pole vault box and when fixed in place (after heel plant), reacts to redirect and transfer the forward momentum and rotation initiated by the rear leg/hip.

Obsolutely GM. It creates a strong force. It would be an ideal force imo, IF it wasn't a moving target trying to be hit.

Shift then swing is great for hitting slowpitch softballs for homeruns.

 

[mann]

Thats a pretty good analogy Greenmonsters. sept for one thing maybe,,

the rear leg/hip is the "pole" and actively supplies forward momentum and rotation

The leg itself, it dosn't supply the rotation. The hip, and all the muscles above the leg supplies the rotation. That what it FEELS like in my swing anyway. My hip graps my leg bone and uses it, as a pole.
I really like the last part.

the front leg/hip is the pole vault box and when fixed in place (after heel plant), reacts to redirect and transfer the forward momentum and rotation initiated by the rear leg/hip.

 

[00fpdaddy]

Whether you are an advocate of Push-Block-Push, or of hitting with an emphasis of powering the swing from the backside, the reality is that the front-side in a two-legged swing is used in a manner that generates ground reaction forces that are transferred to the barrel. IMO the questions really should be more about where the focus should be. Should one attempt to slam themselves into their frontside in hopes of generating rotation (and by the way, one can shove themselves into their frontside without realizing rotation) … or should the frontside be thought more of as having a role of catching the swing/shift and supplying balance ... despite the fact that it does generate ground reaction forces? Should the sequence be to “Shift THEN Swing” or to “Pivot the Swing”? Either way … ground reaction forces relative to the front-side are present. IMO the discussion shouldn’t be about the existence of ground reaction forces relative to the frontside, but more about where the focus is.

the reality is that the front-side in a two-legged swing is used in a manner that generates ground reaction forces that are transferred to the barrel.

FFS, we have 2 legs I understand that part, nadal hits the ball just as hard with one foot of the ground, how can he gather ground forces with one leg and generate the same power with two legs? If he had both feet on the ground shouldnt he be able to hit twice as hard since he is gathering ground forces with both legs? I like the idea of frontside catching and supplying balance for force generated by rear/hip driver. Think you or rhc mentioned this earlier.

Be back later

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Keep in mind that lateral motion is extremely important for Nadal. He needs to be very mobile. His sport is not simply about making one powerful hit ... but is more a game of chess and looking ahead.

You don't know for a fact that Nadal can hit just as hard with one leg grounded Vs. two legs grounded. What you do know is that he can certainly hit the ball hard with one leg grounded ... and IMO there is value in understanding how he does that.

In the HLBB swing the use of the front-side is reactive ... and it does supply additional ground reaction forces. Just as a golfer will drive the ball further with two legs versus one leg, a good baseball/softball hitter will also drive the ball further with two legs versus one leg.

 

[softballphreak]

How much of a push back do these guys have?

I think you can answer that by looking at the movement of the front hip.