back leg, front leg and hands

[RayR]

2 things re: these quotes:

The SECRET OF HIGH LEVEL HITTING is; timing the use of the hands to the energy flowing up from the ground AFTER the legs supply the main energy.

If you don't use the legs and core properly, you won't even get it to the warning track, even with good hand use.

The rotating torso is the primary power source.

1. Is this not simply a throwing model? Can you throw 90 without using your legs or throw a strike from the OF to Home standing still?

2. From a teaching standpoint with the added pressure of your players wishing to be successful in games and not just hit bombs in BP - if you don't correct the way most of our hitters use their hands....then what point is it to learn how to rotate correctly....

High Level Hitting below....ADJUSTING to what the pitcher is throwing at you....

Sit on your butt in the batter's box, with your chest facing the pitcher and your feet in front of you. See how far you can hit the ball with the arms and hands.



The SECRET OF HIGH LEVEL HITTING is; timing the use of the hands to the energy flowing up from the ground AFTER the legs supply the main energy. You can hit the warning track with dead hands. Well timed, proper use of the hands will get it over the wall. The hands are the last link, not the first, and they are a small source of force.

If you don't use the legs and core properly, you won't even get it to the warning track, even with good hand use.

The rotating torso is the primary power source. Or, if you just want to talk in plain English, just listen to Ted Williams, "the hips lead the way."

The torso is moved by the legs.

I'm still waiting for your answer to my question about the front leg. If it supplies no power, how come you can't hit it over the fence while standing on the back leg only? Or, maybe YOU can. Let me know.

Stand on your back leg like the one-legged golfer and hit some baseballs or softballs off of a tee and see how well you do.

Then you can even coil and use that back leg like you believe and push while maintaining coil, off of just the back leg. I'll even let you drop the front leg to catch all that momentum, with one condition. You have to hit the ball before the front foot touches down. Tell me how that works out.

 

[redhotcoach]

I'm still waiting for your answer to my question about the front leg. If it supplies no power, how come you can't hit it over the fence while standing on the back leg only? Or, maybe YOU can. Let me know.

Your right...I can't. I need my left leg to balance, I don't need it to create a large portion of power.
What I can do is have my front toes on the ground to balance, then lift my front foot as I swing, hit it using my rear leg and back. If I had to live on one leg, learned to balance, I bet I could still otf. Notice Santos doesn't swing lefty with only a right leg.

I understand how frustrating it is for you...when you believe Babe hits more homeruns then Ichiro because he pushes back harder.

Sorry, can't supply video, I am on the road today....doesn't seem to matter anyway.

Also, not speaking for Hyp, I think he was asking for a description of a high level swing and how is that different then a young kid. Not a general outline of every swing i.e. the hands and arms move the barrel. BUT whatever....

 

[jbooth]

If you wait for the push back of the lead leg to gain power. The ball will be by you.

That's absolutely not true, and again shows that you don't understand the kinetic link, and how the energy is created and flows.

What makes you think there is a "wait?" There is no waiting.

 

[redhotcoach]

Your right...I can't. I need my left leg to balance, I don't need it to create a large portion of power.
What I can do is have my front toes on the ground to balance, then lift my front foot as I swing, hit it using my rear leg and back. If I had to live on one leg, learned to balance, I bet I could still otf. Notice Santos doesn't swing lefty with only a right leg.

I understand how frustrating it is for you...when you believe Babe hits more homeruns then Ichiro because he pushes back harder.

Sorry, can't supply video, I am on the road today....doesn't seem to matter anyway.

Also, not speaking for Hyp, I think he was asking for a description of a high level swing and how is that different then a young kid. Not a general outline of every swing i.e. the hands and arms move the barrel. BUT whatever....

I don't really care how anyone else teaches kids how to hit...
I played HS and junior college baseball, but got into fastpitch when I was 20, I hit a lot of otf, but have said a hundred times on here I would foul off and strike out on rise balls to who laid the chunk. Up until this summer, I believed the harder and faster you pushed off your back leg, the harder you hit....and that is true. Now I see how mlb hitters swing, with our new tech of slow mo vid, cause I believe before or without vid most mlb players didn't know what they were doing. I wish (as Tewks said in another post) someone would have taught me this when I was a kid. At the least... I would have been able to lay off the 80 mph rise ball.

 

[jbooth]

Ever shoot a sling shot? When you pull back on the pouch and stretch the rubber tubing. Are you not providing resistance until you let go?

Also, I never said the front leg was useless. I said it doesn't push back in the sense of a push. Like I said before. It is firm. It is maintaining dynamic balance. The lead hip moves away from the front foot because of the direction the rear hip is moving. That is what straightens the leg. It is not a timed push back. So, can it truly be considered a push.

Wrong again. And, you're wrong because you don't understand the physics that is going on after the back leg puts momentum into the back hip and torso.

How do you think the front leg becomes firm? It's because of Newton's third law. A force must be applied to stop you from lunging or moving your head over your front foot. In order for the back hip to continue to move as you say, a force must come from the front leg.

In physics force can be split and redirected. That is what happens in the swing. The force from the momentum of the back hip movement must be redirected. To redirect it a force is applied from the front.

You say the front leg "gets" straightened by the back hip moving forward. That is absolutely incorrect. That IS possible however, IF you have absolutely no forward momentum. If you maintain all of your weight on the back foot, and twist on the top of it, as you believe, then the front hip will move backward and pull on the front leg. But, in a real swing, you shift your weight to the front. That shift must be controlled and stopped, to prevent lunging. The front leg stops it by applying a force into the front hip socket.

As I've said before, the push back is mostly a reactive action. It indeed feels simply like a bracing, balancing action. But, the literal physics involved, in physics terms, and bio-mechanical terms, is a push back. A force applied to the front hip socket. The original push from the back is waning. The force from the front, finishes the rotation that came from the back. The only way for that not to be true, would be to swing 100% from the back leg, like a one-legged person. Why would you do that?

 

[jbooth]

Exactly...trying pushing laterally...see how far that gets you...

It is the natural act of the front leg straightening because the rear hip / leg have started forward....which is a "push" in the physics sense only....of course the opposite of this is the front leg bending more during the swing.....

Because of the geometric angles of your bones when you swing, the front leg block and push, applies force that pushes your front hip out away from the plate, around and back toward the back foot.

Whoever said that the push after the block pushed you sideways, back toward the back foot? Not me.

 

[jbooth]

2 things re: these quotes:
1. Is this not simply a throwing model? Can you throw 90 without using your legs or throw a strike from the OF to Home standing still?

2. From a teaching standpoint with the added pressure of your players wishing to be successful in games and not just hit bombs in BP - if you don't correct the way most of our hitters use their hands....then what point is it to learn how to rotate correctly....

High Level Hitting below....ADJUSTING to what the pitcher is throwing at you....

Yes, the hands are an important part of the swing. And, it's nice that you understand that in throwing or hitting, that you need the legs. I'm just trying to give you the intricate details of how the legs contribute to the swing or throw. You were debating with me as to the how. I have given the specific physics and bio-mechanics involved, but you appear to not believe that what I have said, is true. That's OK, but you have to refute what I say with some facts of your own, not just what you think happens.

This isn't a "how to teach" discussion, it's a discussion of the science involved. If you understand the science, you can then develop a teaching method. If your understanding of the science is flawed, then it is also possible that your teaching method will also be flawed. I'm trying to enlighten you to the facts. You can then teach it however you wish.

 

[00fpdaddy]

Wrong again. And, you're wrong because you don't understand the physics that is going on after the back leg puts momentum into the back hip and torso.

How do you think the front leg becomes firm? It's because of Newton's third law. A force must be applied to stop you from lunging or moving your head over your front foot. In order for the back hip to continue to move as you say, a force must come from the front leg.

In physics force can be split and redirected. That is what happens in the swing. The force from the momentum of the back hip movement must be redirected. To redirect it a force is applied from the front.

You say the front leg "gets" straightened by the back hip moving forward. That is absolutely incorrect. That IS possible however, IF you have absolutely no forward momentum. If you maintain all of your weight on the back foot, and twist on the top of it, as you believe, then the front hip will move backward and pull on the front leg. But, in a real swing, you shift your weight to the front. That shift must be controlled and stopped, to prevent lunging. The front leg stops it by applying a force into the front hip socket.

As I've said before, the push back is mostly a reactive action. It indeed feels simply like a bracing, balancing action. But, the literal physics involved, in physics terms, and bio-mechanical terms, is a push back. A force applied to the front hip socket. The original push from the back is waning. The force from the front, finishes the rotation that came from the back. The only way for that not to be true, would be to swing 100% from the back leg, like a one-legged person. Why would you do that?

Thank you. It now no longer about the physics. It is now WHAT (Mlb hitters)DO THEY DO.

But....seriously......how would you know?

Just because a major leaguers foot is on the ground.....doesn't mean he isn't doing what Nadal is doing. Nadal can do exactly what he shows with or without his foot on the ground.

Because the entire engine is in his rear hip and leg.

He doesn't have to shift then swing like you teach, to generate power.

Neither do major league hitters.

disclaimer - got this from another site, did some editing so feelings would not get hurt. Personally, I think this quote says it all.

 

[softballphreak]

Wrong again. And, you're wrong because you don't understand the physics that is going on after the back leg puts momentum into the back hip and torso.

How do you think the front leg becomes firm? It's because of Newton's third law. A force must be applied to stop you from lunging or moving your head over your front foot. In order for the back hip to continue to move as you say, a force must come from the front leg.

In physics force can be split and redirected. That is what happens in the swing. The force from the momentum of the back hip movement must be redirected. To redirect it a force is applied from the front.

You say the front leg "gets" straightened by the back hip moving forward. That is absolutely incorrect. That IS possible however, IF you have absolutely no forward momentum. If you maintain all of your weight on the back foot, and twist on the top of it, as you believe, then the front hip will move backward and pull on the front leg. But, in a real swing, you shift your weight to the front. That shift must be controlled and stopped, to prevent lunging. The front leg stops it by applying a force into the front hip socket.

As I've said before, the push back is mostly a reactive action. It indeed feels simply like a bracing, balancing action. But, the literal physics involved, in physics terms, and bio-mechanical terms, is a push back. A force applied to the front hip socket. The original push from the back is waning. The force from the front, finishes the rotation that came from the back. The only way for that not to be true, would be to swing 100% from the back leg, like a one-legged person. Why would you do that?

The key words here are "stop" and "redirect". The force isn't actually stopped, it is redirected. The energy is still used, it doesn't stop. There is no brake, no "block".

 

[00fpdaddy]

Nadal(gif up top) and one-legged golfer is supplying all the power with rear leg/hip. Where is their block to redirect the force? Nadal hits the ball with one leg sometimes, another times two legs. How come the ball flys off the racket with equal force. How can he generate that much force with his foot off the ground while hittting the ball back at his opponent? This particular gif, he has no block.


Ty Ken for not closing this thread.