back leg, front leg and hands

Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

May 16, 2010
1,086
38
There has been a lot of discussion about push-block-push, and about the use of the legs. There are some posters who don't think that the front leg does much.

Let's look carefully at the three videos below. I paused them at 3 positions. Focus on where the hands and barrel of the bat are, in relationship to where the weight or pressure is, on the feet.

bondsfeet.gif


canofeet.gif


pujolsfeet.gif


In all 3 videos the weight is on the front and little to no weight is on the back foot, while the hands are still at the back shoulder and the barrel is behind their back. The entire barrel and hand movement from there to contact, is completed while the back foot is unweighted, or is unweighting.

So, my question is; why do some people believe that the front foot does nothing to contribute power. And, why do some people say the front foot just catches the swing after it is done. From what I see, it doesn't even start, until the front foot is down.

Push, gets the front foot down (first pause), Block happens at the second pause, and Push back happens as the barrel goes to contact after the second pause.

They prepare to throw the barrel during the push, they begin the throw approximately during the block, and the throw progresses as the push back is happening. The push back finishes at, or just before, contact.

At the time that their back elbow is down, and the barrel is still back, they have most, if not all, of their weight on the front foot.

They start to "turn the barrel" as they push off of the back foot, but during the majority of the distance that the hands and barrel travel in their paths to the ball, the weight is on the front foot.
 
Last edited:
R

RayR

Guest
If you agree that the hips are already turning by the time of the "block" why does a push have to occur to have rotation? Rotation was already started....

The only push there is of the front leg is the block....or catch....the front leg straightens and head stays centered because rotation was already in progress before the block....

There has been a lot of discussion about push-block-push, and about the use of the legs. There are some posters who don't think that the front leg does much.

Let's look carefully at the three videos below. I paused them at 3 positions. Focus on where the hands and barrel of the bat are, in relationship to where the weight or pressure is, on the feet.

bondsfeet.gif


canofeet.gif


pujolsfeet.gif


In all 3 videos the weight is on the front and little to no weight is on the back foot, while the hands are still at the back shoulder and the barrel is behind their back. The entire barrel and hand movement from there to contact, is completed while the back foot is unweighted, or is unweighting.

So, my question is; why do some people believe that the front foot does nothing to contribute power. And, why do some people say the front foot just catches the swing after it is done. From what I see, it doesn't even start, until the front foot is down.

Push, gets the front foot down (first pause), Block happens at the second pause, and Push back happens as the barrel goes to contact after the second pause.

They prepare to throw the barrel during the push, they begin the throw approximately during the block, and the throw progresses as the push back is happening. The push back finishes at, or just before, contact.

At the time that their back elbow is down, and the barrel is still back, they have most, if not all, of their weight on the front foot.

They start to "turn the barrel" as they push off of the back foot, but during the majority of the distance that the hands and barrel travel in their paths to the ball, the weight is on the front foot.
 

redhotcoach

Out on good behavior
May 8, 2009
4,706
38
There has been a lot of discussion about push-block-push, and about the use of the legs. There are some posters who don't think that the front leg does much.

Let's look carefully at the three videos below. I paused them at 3 positions. Focus on where the hands and barrel of the bat are, in relationship to where the weight or pressure is, on the feet.

bondsfeet.gif


canofeet.gif


pujolsfeet.gif


In all 3 videos the weight is on the front and little to no weight is on the back foot, while the hands are still at the back shoulder and the barrel is behind their back. The entire barrel and hand movement from there to contact, is completed while the back foot is unweighted, or is unweighting.

So, my question is; why do some people believe that the front foot does nothing to contribute power. And, why do some people say the front foot just catches the swing after it is done. From what I see, it doesn't even start, until the front foot is down.

Push, gets the front foot down (first pause), Block happens at the second pause, and Push back happens as the barrel goes to contact after the second pause.

They prepare to throw the barrel during the push, they begin the throw approximately during the block, and the throw progresses as the push back is happening. The push back finishes at, or just before, contact.

At the time that their back elbow is down, and the barrel is still back, they have most, if not all, of their weight on the front foot.

They start to "turn the barrel" as they push off of the back foot, but during the majority of the distance that the hands and barrel travel in their paths to the ball, the weight is on the front foot.

Yep. Shift AND Swing.

Think I'll make up my new thing "SAS"

Or how about "RIB" Rotate Into Block
 
Oct 25, 2009
3,345
48
The front leg (foot) contributes; as evidenced by a momentary feeling of pressure (adduction?) on the inside thigh (foot) on some swings. It doesn't have to be just a braking action; it can contribute a slight pulling action, if you will.
 

HYP

Nov 17, 2012
427
0
There has been a lot of discussion about push-block-push, and about the use of the legs. There are some posters who don't think that the front leg does much.

Let's look carefully at the three videos below. I paused them at 3 positions. Focus on where the hands and barrel of the bat are, in relationship to where the weight or pressure is, on the feet.

bondsfeet.gif


canofeet.gif


pujolsfeet.gif


In all 3 videos the weight is on the front and little to no weight is on the back foot, while the hands are still at the back shoulder and the barrel is behind their back. The entire barrel and hand movement from there to contact, is completed while the back foot is unweighted, or is unweighting.

So, my question is; why do some people believe that the front foot does nothing to contribute power. And, why do some people say the front foot just catches the swing after it is done. From what I see, it doesn't even start, until the front foot is down.

Push, gets the front foot down (first pause), Block happens at the second pause, and Push back happens as the barrel goes to contact after the second pause.

They prepare to throw the barrel during the push, they begin the throw approximately during the block, and the throw progresses as the push back is happening. The push back finishes at, or just before, contact.

At the time that their back elbow is down, and the barrel is still back, they have most, if not all, of their weight on the front foot.

They start to "turn the barrel" as they push off of the back foot, but during the majority of the distance that the hands and barrel travel in their paths to the ball, the weight is on the front foot.

The swing has already been powered. The weight stays back. Just because the rear foot is leaving the ground doesn't mean the weigh isn't back. The energy of the rear hip is pulling the rear foot up but the weight remains over the rear hip. The rear hip is already pulling.

Pausing at key spots in a video can show anything. If you video me jumping in the air and then play it back and pause it as I get off the ground. It will look like I am floating.

Moving this over here since you started a new thread.

I have to go to practice but...

If the rear hip is moving forward and the lead hip is off of its center line, so it doesn't slide forward. Which way will the front hip move? Will it move the opposite direction of the rear hip? So, Right handed batter. If I stand in the box with my toes of my right foot facing the plate. Now I stand on my back leg only. Left leg in a flamingo pose. Now pivot your right hip around on top of the rear leg. So your belly button faces the pitcher without moving your foot. Which way did the front hip move?

Now, do the in the context of a swing. The torso is pivoting around the rear femur. The rear femur maybe moving forward. So, now the rear hip is moving forward while pivoting around the femur. That is why Bonds front hip doesn't seem to move back as far as the rear hip moves forward.

I may be wrong with the femur stuff. I think that is what that bone is called.

That is how I see the hips working. The lead leg is keeping you from falling forward. It is supplying enough pressure to catch the swing. If that is the push back you are talking about then we are good and on the same page.
 
Oct 10, 2011
1,572
38
Pacific Northwest
The torso is pivoting around the rear femur. The rear femur maybe moving forward. So, now the rear hip is moving forward while pivoting around the femur. That is why Bonds front hip doesn't seem to move back as far as the rear hip moves forward.
/

we need some torque meters to put a stop to this maddness.
/
Ok the backleg does not appear to do much but act as a stick or pole for the hip. Once the leg bends the force is gone?

the front hip socket sees WAY more rotation from the front leg, just measure how much each foot turns.
so ithe front leg not only pulls put pushes also.
the back leg turns into a brake

the back leg might start the swing, but does it drive the swing?
 
Aug 28, 2012
457
0
Was playing around with a GIF trying to isolate the rear leg action to show the continually inwardly pressured rear leg working against the resisting rear hip and up.

Posey_nofrontleg.gif


IMO, This is how you sell out to the rear leg.

Posey IS the one legged (rear leg) golfer
 
May 16, 2010
1,086
38
Was playing around with a GIF trying to isolate the rear leg action to show the continually inwardly pressured rear leg working against the resisting rear hip and up.

Posey_nofrontleg.gif


IMO, This is how you sell out to the rear leg.

Posey IS the one legged (rear leg) golfer

The one legged (right leg only) hitter/golfer can only rotate, he can't shift. He starts rotation by using the muscles that ER the leg. He cannot abduct or he will fall down. He also gets upper torso rotation using the core muscles, as do two legged hitters also.

Two legged hitters like Posey above, abduct with some ER, but then the front leg takes over. There is a transition period where both legs are applying force to the pelvis.

BOTH legs make him rotate. First, the back leg force initiates the momentum, and then the front leg increases the momentum, and finishes the rotation. That's why you can hit farther with two legs, they both apply force to make the torso rotate.
 
Last edited:

Greenmonsters

Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
Feb 21, 2009
6,168
38
New England
The one legged (right leg only) hitter/golfer can only rotate, he can't shift. He starts rotation by using the muscles that ER the leg. He cannot abduct or he will fall down. He also gets upper torso rotation using the core muscles, as do two legged hitters also.

Two legged hitters like Posey above, abduct with some ER, but then the front leg takes over. There is a transition period where both legs are applying force to the pelvis.

BOTH legs make him rotate. First, the back leg force initiates the momentum, and then the front leg increases the momentum, and finishes the rotation. That's why you can hit farther with two legs, they both apply force to make the torso rotate.

If you are saying that the front leg adds momentum to increases rotation, then how is rotation ultimately stopped? Even if that's not what you are saying, then what movement/body parts are responsible for stopping the hitter's rotation?
 
Oct 10, 2011
1,572
38
Pacific Northwest
The things that stop momentum.
weight from the back hip, can be a real momentum killer, ever see a toe dragging a line.

Front foot after full extension is now a brake.

the explosive foward energy of the swing, as this is what the energy was created For
this still a test?
 

Latest posts

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
42,830
Messages
679,468
Members
21,443
Latest member
sstop28
Top