14 yo DD Part II

[FiveFrameSwing]

Crankermo, you mentioned that pronating the lead forearm led to an accelerated swing.

Yes … that is very real … but it isn’t the correct way to achieve that action IMO. Yes, if the barrel is brought back vertically, as in brought back with a BHUT like move, then a sudden flattening of the bottom hand to the swing plane will result in giving the barrel some early momentum as it is brought on plane. That is what we refer to as “early bat speed”. It has the ‘feel’ of giving the barrel some ‘life’.

Next step for your daughter is “the hands”.

Notice the lack of rearward barrel movement at swing initiation. Notice the desire for the top hand to come forward. This is actually a form of ‘bat drag’ by my description of ‘bat drag’. The solution … learn to use the hands.

First things first.

Instead of having the lead forearm pronate to have the bottom hand flatten to the swing plane, instead use the ‘upper’ lead arm (not the lead forearm, but the ‘upper’ lead arm [humerus]). That is, let the upper lead arm have the responsibility of causing the bottom hand to flatten to the swing plane. Try to pass the responsibility of the bottom hand flattening from the lead ‘forearm’ to the lead ‘upper arm’. Remove the lead forearm from being involved in trying to get the bottom hand flat to the swing plane … instead have that task accomplished with the upper lead arm.

That’s step one.

Next, let’s give control to the ‘hands’.

It might help if you read MTS’s posts on hand usage.

Did you follow MTS’ posts on the lead elbow pointing back towards the rear foot? Do you understand how this caused the lead shoulder to move down & in? Do you understand how this leads to a BHUT-like move in terms of loading the hands? If the answer is ‘no’ to any of this, then we need to review that information.

Also … have you followed MTS’ description of the hands pulling apart along the length of the barrel as the barrel arrives at launch? Do you understand how this loads the upper back muscles and builds an important stretch … a very important stretch that will be used to control the release of the swing … a stretch similar to what you would get if you drew back a bow (as in a bow and arrow)?

IMO, the hands should never be given a goal to move straight back to launch, but instead move down & in and then up. Hmmm … why the convoluted path? The answer is because there are some important “under the hood actions” taking place. This is generally accomplished via a BHUT like move. During this BHUT like move the hands will have a feel as if they were pulling apart along the length of the barrel. That is, the bottom hand wishes to pull towards the knob, but the top hand is pulling in the opposite direction towards the barrel … and the top hand is winning … and the top hand will be in control of launching the swing … yet the bottom hand is already pulling in that direction. It could be viewed as a state of dynamic balance between the hands … in terms of hand pressure on the bat handle.

How does the top hand initiate the swing? Good question … and this is where your daughter currently needs to improve. The top hand initiates the swing by turning the barrel … NOT by pulling it forward … and this is what your daughter needs to correct next IMO.

 

[crankermo]

FFS,

Let's see if I've got this right. I'm feeling pressure behind my lead shoulder socket the front elbow is going up because of this and I'm suppinating my rear forearm to turn the barrel rearwards and it seems like it creates a very nice pivot point that causes batwhip. I can feel the tug of war between the hands doing this. Is this correct?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

FFS,

Let's see if I've got this right. I'm feeling pressure behind my lead shoulder socket the front elbow is going up because of this and I'm suppinating my rear forearm to turn the barrel rearwards and it seems like it creates a very nice pivot point that causes batwhip. I can feel the tug of war between the hands doing this. Is this correct?

Sort of .... what you are describing is the 'lateral tilt' portion of the swing, or the area in which 'connection' is established. That's probably the first thing to work on ... using the lead 'upper' arm (rather than the lead forearm) to get the bottom hand flat to the swing plane ... and yes, the 'feel' you described in the lead shoulder ... that feel of tightening as the lead shoulder moves up ... that is the fusion leading to the establishment of connection of the bottom hand. Sounds like you can 'feel' it ... and with some swings you will then 'own' it.

What I'd recommend working on next is the stretch that should be developed in the upper back muscles as you "draw back the bow".



Just as when you use "the move" and develop a "slow & fluid building of energy to explode" with the lower body mechanics, I'd now like to see your daughter develop a similar "slow & fluid building of energy to explode" with the upper body mechanics.

Start with the coil ... the use of the muscles in the upper rear leg to initiate the coil. Very important that as you begin to concentrate on the upper body that you don't start initiating the coil with the upper body. Any extra counter rotation induced by initiating the coil with the upper body will degrade the loading of the upper back muscles. The message here is to continue to initiate the coil with the muscles in the rear upper leg.

Initiate the hip cock with the muscles in the upper rear leg. Then, pretty much as MTS reviewed ..... have the front elbow point back towards the rear foot (line parallel to the rear foot), with the top hand have the feel of drawing back a bow (bow & arrow) ... and feel the tension in the back muscles building. This will have your lead shoulder moving down & in ... maybe only an inch ... maybe 3 inches ... there abouts. The hands then will come up as you use MTS' description of pulling the hands apart along the length of the barrel. For me ... the feel of control is in the ring and middle fingers ... and for me, the ring fingers have the most control, but I know hitters whose middle fingers have more control ... so it can be different. Over at BBD LClifton recommended placing a pencil under the index finger to help hitters stop putting a death grip on the bat ... ... ... and I've found this works quite well. Had a kid break a pencil doing this tonight ... which to me is an indication that they tend to chock the dickens out of the bat. As you have the feel of the hands pulling apart along the length of the barrel, the building of tension in the upper back muscles will continue. You will feel that tension peak ... slow & fluid gathering of energy ... and you release that tension by turning the top hand. In a sense the top hand will become the release of the swing ... not the 'pushing' of the top hand, but a feel of turning the top hand.

 

[Wellphyt]

Crankermo -

When I study your daughter's swing in QuickTime, she looks to me to be trying to slot her rear elbow without moving her hands forward towards the pitcher. She kind of pulls it off but she looks conflicted doing it. Has she ever been taught to work her elbows together in the same direction, or told to work her front elbow as if it were moving up a ramp?

When you combine the "moving up a ramp" queue with "keep your hands back", "keep your hands at the back shoulder" or "don't drop your hands" type queues you end up with a conflicting message. The elbows work together, but they work together in different directions. When the back elbow lowers to the side, the front forearm/elbow should lift out off the chest. It should not move forward towards the pitcher.


It looks like your DD has the right idea, but needs a little help understanding how the elbows work. I have found it is hard for them to get the correct "feel" using a flat handset like she does. The reason being that the front forearm is already close to being max up off the chest. So almost all of the movement is under-the-hood. It's the reason I do not initially teach players to adopt a batting stance where the barrel is close to tapping the pony tail.

I believe if you put her in front of a mirror and do the following it may help.

1. Stand straight with chest facing mirror. Hold bat vertical at rear shoulder. Lower rear elbow to side slowly. Does the front elbow move forward and up as the back elbow lowers; as if it were moving up a ramp? Do the hands drop some as the back elbow lowers? Does the knob of the bat face more towards where the pitcher would be?

2. Stand straight with chest facing mirror. Hold bat vertical at rear shoulder. Lower rear elbow to side slowly. As rear elbow lowers, simultaneously work front forearm up off the chest towards the mirror. Knob of bat should end up facing towards the mirror. Hands should remain in place at back shoulder. Hands will pivot, but they will not move forward or drop.

Make sure to do both one and two without any shoulder rotation. You are just trying to get her to isolate the two different ways the arms can work to flatten the hands.

 

[tom.guerry]

well -

when you compare the males to females in your selection of jpegs, ntoice how much more "torque angle" the men have. They are using a different enough pattern that there is more effective upper resistance/hands more behind hips/more stretch and fire.

The women you pick are advanced beyond the total freewheeling lack of resistance/stretch, but could do better.

See HI concepts of "corner" and attacking oppo, for example:

The Corner, Creating, stretching and using the corner teacherman1986 on USTREAM. Baseball

http://www.hittingillustrated.com/images/Step2AttackOppo.mov

 

[tom.guerry]

I like the golf approach of describing the swing as 2 engines and how they synch, more recently with the understanding of how the synch creates the spinal engine.

For example, see about the 3:50 mark of the corner video where you can see the bat actively turned in a more vertical plane than the much more horizontally turning hips.

When there is a good synch here, there is more resistance better controlled for a more efficient stretch and fire.

if you do not understand the full pattern, you might think the necessary upper engine action would produce a "barrel dump" as opposed to how the upper engine handpivot plane and the hip plane need to blend to form the matching swing plane, a so called 2 plane type swing as opposed to the one plane shoulder turn dominant establishment of plane (which turns into a gate swing when sped up to be quick enough for bb/fp reaction times).

spinal engine now best described in golf:

Where Bubba Gets His Power From :: Oceanic Time Warner Cable's AroundHawaii.com

Revisiting the Kinetic Link Principle :: Oceanic Time Warner Cable's AroundHawaii.com

 

[crankermo]

Wellphyt,

I'm not quit following you on the hands moving towards the pitcher before elbow slot. Wouldn't that be more of a push. I've compared all the clips of hitters on here and it seems to me that the hands and elbow come together until they turn the corner. Can you post a video/clip of a hitter doing what your saying so I can look @ it. I might not be understanding you correctly.

 

[Wellphyt]

Wellphyt,

I'm not quit following you on the hands moving towards the pitcher before elbow slot. Wouldn't that be more of a push. I've compared all the clips of hitters on here and it seems to me that the hands and elbow come together until they turn the corner. Can you post a video/clip of a hitter doing what your saying so I can look @ it. I might not be understanding you correctly.

If the hands move toward the pitcher as the back elbow slots, then yes, that would be a push. Most don't see the push because the upper torso is turning at the same time as the back elbow is lowering. The push gets camouflaged by the turning shoulders, but the barrel path gives it away.

Here is Tyson using a handset very similar to your DD.
[video]http://groundup.hittingillustrated.com/softball/HittingClips/DenaTyson.gif[/video]

IMO, Tyson is doing the same thing that this guy is doing:
[video]http://coachdm.hittingillustrated.com/clips/HANK2nd.gif[/video]

The difference is that Tyson uses a flat handset and Aaron uses a vertical handset.

 

[straightleg]

crank

Lets see some swings where the tee is deeper. Say even with were her lead foot lands. And maybe a couple where the tee is around the heel of the front foot. A few inches deeper than the first set up.



Straightleg

 

[crankermo]

OK . Hers a couple more videos from tonight. The first one she did slow motion to connection and then fast to contact. I noticed her back elbow tucked under again when she tried to speed it up. The second video is a full speed swing, same problems as before. Wasn't expecting a miracle though, lol. Everything looks so good except for those darn elbows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9A1l_nWuuE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uquoFRQ79mY