Throwing progression

Greenmonsters · Jan 21, 2013

austinwass said:
....and started questioning everything I was ever taught. I realized that what was being taught doesn't happen in a high level throw....

...or swing!

IMO, without going back to the very basics, critically evaluating and re-thinking every assumption, and studying video of the best, one runs the risk of continuing to teach and promote inefficient, less effective, and potentially injurious mechanics.

So what's a dad or coach with a full-time job and limited time to do? IMO, follow the advice of those like Austin who've put in the time and taken the journey. Red flags should go up if they can't teach or explain effectively, answer questions to your satisfaction, demonstrate what they are teaching, or if what they're teaching doesn't synch with video of the best.

iMlearning · Jan 21, 2013

austinwass said:
Again, just because they played college baseball, does not mean they know how to teach high level throwing patterns. I played college baseball at UConn and played professional baseball for multiple seasons, but I don't use that for the reason I teach what I teach. At that level, these patterns are not taught. By college, these patterns are already instilled in the athletes. I have had numerous coaches that have played in major league baseball, yet cannot relay the information properly to their athletes because they just don't understand what is happening. Just because a coach can throw efficiently, does not mean they can teach how they throw to others...

As to the throwmax... I wrote about this in a previous thread:

The ThrowMax is not a bad product.... actually it is a bad product and it's not the company's fault for not completely understanding throwing mechanics and what actually happens during a throw. The entire 6 phase throwing diagram describes positions. Throwing is not a position. Throwing is a movement through specific positions in order to achieve an end result. My book on Throwing Patterns will be available soon (Release in March, fingers crossed)

As a Strength & Conditioning coach, having studied biomechanics and kinesiology, the use of this product will most likely decrease velocity and may actually induce shoulder injuries... not elbow injuries.

The reason why athletes have elbow pain is because of poor teaching of throwing mechanics, specifically ARM ACTION & SEQUENCE, poor throwing programs, poor pre and post throwing protocols and overuse. It's not because of the elbow angle during late cocking and acceleration.

Below are clips that this company has on their website. Pure pushing and pure spinning motions. The arm starts back, point the ball away, classic demonstration, step and throw. This motion is completely incorrect.

http://www.throwmax.com/images/MOV00...side_shots.MPG

http://www.throwmax.com/images/MOV00021_Tmfronts.mpg

This image is actually really funny because the kid on the left is correct and the kid on the right is incorrect. I can post some clips of any high level thrower and you will see that they do not perfom the throwing style as posted on the right in the picture. It just doesn't happen.

Kid on the right: has the brace on, points the ball away, glove is tucked, step and throw. Minimal velocity, pure spinning, no separation, possible shoulder injury.

Kid on the left: no brace, elbow is above shoulder, thoracic extension occurring, lead arm not doing anything (which is awesome because this allows for thoracic extension and will ultimately lead to max external rotation and max velocity), no spinning motion, shoulder is protected because other structures will be involved to decelerate the crazy internal rotation forces of the throwing shoulder.

Why Your Softball Players Have Elbow Pain: Wrist Flick Edition

Training Movement Patterns

Thanks again. I've read that about the throwmax, so her coaches wanting her to wear it made me want to learn what the proper way to proceed really was.
Can you please finish the darn book or send me the cliff notes asap

redhotcoach · Jan 21, 2013

Hop and separate

rear leg down and in, upper resist. lower unload while upper loads.

throw.

redhotcoach · Jan 21, 2013

Infield. rear leg still turns while upper pulls back.

redhotcoach · Jan 21, 2013

Catcher. rear leg ir....back pulls back creating stretch.

David Carter · Jan 21, 2013

Looking carefully at each of those gifs one things really jumps out is you see that classic L that is always taught when teaching throwing but if you look the rear leg/lower body has already begun to release when that L is achieved. In fact if you paused most of those gifs you would see the belly button almost facing the target at the L position but whenever it is taught it is... front hand to target while in line with target and elbow at L then everything goes forward, which is sequenced completely wrong.

I can not tell you how much I have learned over the past six months...this from some one that has played and coached softball and baseball for about 30 years and thought I had a good grasp on things. Again while you guys are all wonderful it is just the constant admonition to look close at exactly what the best players are doing and see if it matches what you have been taught or thought you knew.

iMlearning · Jan 22, 2013

We started doing the drills last night, so we'll see how it goes. She was glad not to have to wear the Throwmax. I kept it in site just to scare her though

redhotcoach · Jan 22, 2013

redhotcoach said:
Catcher. rear leg ir....back pulls back creating stretch.

I have been looking at Avila's arm for like half an hour now. If you were looking at the ball from above, it looks like it is making a counter clockwise circle.

IML what drills are you guys starting?

iMlearning · Jan 22, 2013

Well, first we started with wrist flicks. LOL just kidding.
We did the seated bucket drill behind the head. I made her aim at a screw that was in the drywall for a focus point. She actually liked this drill and threw about 50 balls. She wanted to keep doing it. The ball kept bouncing away from her at first, but then she got the hang of it. We also did "the walk up drill" but for throwing. This is her favorite batting drill, so it was a no brainer. We are definately trying to get her lower half into it more. She aimed at a target on the wall for this also and focused on her grip, rotation, etc...
Then, we did the "reverse rocker drill." At this point, we stopped as she wanted to do some batting and just got out of her 1 1/2 workout, and her arms were already worn out.
It's probably the best I've ever seen her throw, except when she crow hops. When she crow hops, her throw looks really good because I think she actually is using her whole body.

austinwass · Jan 22, 2013

iMlearning, Awesome! Great to hear that the drills were helpful... and that you didn't start with wrist flicks

Throwing progression

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