Wild pitch versus passed ball

[uncdrew]

Whew....as the pitchers Dad...I guess I'm immune

I actually look at it...."why did my DD throw that WP...." And "thank you catcher for controlling what could have been a WP!"

A good catcher can make a good to above average pitcher look awesome. A bad catcher can make a good to above average pitcher look horrible. LOVE great catchers.

My DD has a 5 strike out inning once due to a less than stellar catcher.

 

[osagedr]

What's really sad is how much time parents wasted on what it's called.

That I can certainly agree with!

 

[radness]

When people start counting wild pitches in a row...
Because its 14 dirt pitches...
Then coaches pull pitcher...
Only to put a pitcher in who repeatedly throws 8 wp over the umpires head...
Its just a WILD DAY!

 

[wheresmycar]

From the NCAA softball scoring rules...

SECTION 27—WIlD PITCH A wild pitch is charged to a pitcher when the pitch is so high, wide or low that the catcher cannot handle the ball with ordinary effort and at least one runner advances. Any pitch in the dirt is wild (emphasis added). Only one wild pitch is recorded regardless of the number of runners who advance or the number of bases advanced. A third strike not handled by the catcher because it was wild, when the batter reaches first base safely, is scored as both a wild pitch and a strike-out. No wild pitch is charged if a runner stealing on the pitch advances only one base. A wild pitch is not an error.

Wow, scoring games in the NCAA... that must be a cool gig....

 

[radness]

Some interesting twists in this?!
is this really correct lol

3rd strike, WP not handled by catcher, batter/runner safe at first,
Scored as both WP & Strikeout.
WHAT?
Lets just pamper the ego of the pitcher a bit.... LOL
(Pitcher gets a strikeout defense gets a runner on base hmmm?)

OHHHH LOOK AT THIS PART

No WP is charged if a runner advances only 1 base...!!!!!

REALLY SETS AN EXPECTATION ON THE CATCHER/defense!!!

pamper that pitcher a little more

 

[wheresmycar]

3rd strike, WP not handled by catcher, batter/runner safe at first,
Score as both WP & Strikeout.

Can game changer score this? WP Strike 3, with batter safe at first?

Answered my own question, yes, its under the dropped 3rd strike options.

 

[CoachJD]

View attachment 19865


OHHHH LOOK AT THIS PART

No WP is charged if a runner advances only 1 base...!!!!!

REALLY SETS AN EXPECTATION ON THE CATCHER/defense!!!

pamper that pitcher a little more

I think you're reading it wrong. What the saying is that if the runner is stealing (as in they're off as soon as the pitch is released), it counts as a stolen base even if the pitch is bad (or if the catcher just misses it). As long as the runner only goes the one base. But for no WP to be charged, the runner has to be stealing on the pitch.

The reason for this simple: You cannot assume the runner, who was trying for the next base before it was a wild pitch, would have been thrown out. Benefit of the doubt goes to the runner here, so they get the stolen base. This is not different from how we can't assume a double play, so a wild throw to first after getting a force out is not going to be ruled an error unless the runner advances beyond first.

 

[CoachJD]

This is where the NCAA "rule" quoted above causes problems. It makes no sense to call a pitch "wild" just because it's in the dirt, when it's supposed to be in the dirt. I do GC all the time, watch every pitch, and whether the pitch is in the dirt or not, determine whether the ball is a wild pitch or a passed ball solely based upon whether it could have been caught by the catcher "with normal effort."

FWIW, I have never once seen a pitch in the dirt be ruled a passed ball in any Major League game. The argument, I'm assuming, is that fielding any ball in the dirt requires something beyond ordinary effort. This is the true and correct argument, imo. If the Official Scorekeepers, presumably among the best in the world at that job, believe that Major League catchers, the best in the world at their jobs, cannot be expected to control a ball in the dirt with "ordinary effort," it's certainly wrong to expect any other catchers to be able to do so.

If there is offspeed in the dirt, blocked properly by the catcher, and the baserunner advances, I am likely to award a stolen base. The pitcher did not make a mistake. The catcher did not make a mistake. The baserunner stole the base appropriately.

Only reason ppl squabble about these things is b/c of DD's stats. Sad.

Maybe people squabble because other people make up their own rules for scoring games. Like in the example you just provided, which is absolutely NOT a stolen base if the runner wasn't stealing with the pitch. The runner advanced entirely because the person who threw the ball threw it in such a manner that the runner was able to advance a base when she otherwise would not have. This is a wild pitch.

(Also, someone can correct me if a specific softball scorekeeping rule contradicts the baseball rule, but the actual rules specifically say you're wrong here. See: The Official Scorer shall charge a pitcher with a wild pitch when a legally delivered ball touches the ground or home plate before reaching the catcher and is not handled by the catcher, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance.)

 

[MNDad]

FWIW, I have never once seen a pitch in the dirt be ruled a passed ball in any Major League game. The argument, I'm assuming, is that fielding any ball in the dirt requires something beyond ordinary effort. This is the true and correct argument, imo. If the Official Scorekeepers, presumably among the best in the world at that job, believe that Major League catchers, the best in the world at their jobs, cannot be expected to control a ball in the dirt with "ordinary effort," it's certainly wrong to expect any other catchers to be able to do so.



Maybe people squabble because other people make up their own rules for scoring games. Like in the example you just provided, which is absolutely NOT a stolen base if the runner wasn't stealing with the pitch. The runner advanced entirely because the person who threw the ball threw it in such a manner that the runner was able to advance a base when she otherwise would not have. This is a wild pitch.

(Also, someone can correct me if a specific softball scorekeeping rule contradicts the baseball rule, but the actual rules specifically say you're wrong here. See: The Official Scorer shall charge a pitcher with a wild pitch when a legally delivered ball touches the ground or home plate before reaching the catcher and is not handled by the catcher, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance.)

Agree completely on scorekeepers making things up. People squabble when they interject their own opinions instead of following the rules.

Regarding baseball vs softball, there are WP differences in HS and travel softball WP definitions. I agree about pitches in the dirt being out of the ordinary. NCAA is the only rule set in softball that says that though. A good catcher is expected to block a majority of pitches in the dirt. I think it’s more of a bonus when they’re successful and shouldn’t be a passed ball. Felt differently until college when I saw what it takes to block 65-70 mph pitches. Nothing at all ordinary about that. Thank god for great catchers!

Somebody posted NFCA guidelines above. I liked those because they provide uniform guidelines that seem to mirror NCAA rules.

 

[radness]

I think you're reading it wrong. What the saying is that if the runner is stealing (as in they're off as soon as the pitch is released), it counts as a stolen base even if the pitch is bad (or if the catcher just misses it). As long as the runner only goes the one base. But for no WP to be charged, the runner has to be stealing on the pitch.

The reason for this simple: You cannot assume the runner, who was trying for the next base before it was a wild pitch, would have been thrown out. Benefit of the doubt goes to the runner here, so they get the stolen base. This is not different from how we can't assume a double play, so a wild throw to first after getting a force out is not going to be ruled an error unless the runner advances beyond first.

it was humor! Struck me as funny!
No WP charged if runner only advances ONE base....
Really puts pressure on the catcher/and defense...
(otherwise pitcher might get charged a WP if the runner steals TWO bases)

Lol...pitchers parent might get unglued if the defense lags on that WILD PITCH and lets the runner steal TWO bases and actually gets charged a WILD PITCH.