Wild pitch versus passed ball

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Mar 10, 2020
734
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Is there a concensus about this? Obviously anything uncatchable -- over the head, wide on either side, pitch hits the bull -- are wild pitches. But what about the pitch that hits the plate, or the ground at the catcher's mitt? What's the assumption about a pitch outside of the strike zone that's the difference between wild and passed?
Eldest dd pitches. The pitch that misses over the plate could end up being more detrimental than one errant pitch. Solo HR vs. HBP rather throw it in the dirt away to waste one. Catcher has to do their job. Part of the game.
 
Oct 11, 2018
231
43
Last game I coached was 5 years ago and won the tournament on a 1-0 complete 7 inning game. Home team up, bottom 7, runner on 3rd, 2 outs. #4 hitter up with 3-2 count. we couldn't get a curve ball by her; she fouled off about 5 in a row. Called time and talked to pitcher and catcher. Said we are going to try 1 more curve ball and if she fouls it, next pitch will go with a drop ball. Told Nicole (catcher) you MUST keep the drop in front of you, It will be in the dirt but you MUST stop it. Batter fouled off curve again. Drop ball hit plate, Nicole blocked it but couldn't control it. It spun off to 3rd base size. Nicole scrambled, got the ball and dove back with her glove just in front of plate and R1 slid into tag. Game over, championship won, I retired to umpiring. My favorite play of all time.

This story is a bit out of place, but since we are discussing WP a bit relevant. Ball in the dirt but no WP charged on this because the runner did not advance. Out at the plate to end a fantastic game.
 
Mar 10, 2020
734
63
Last game I coached was 5 years ago and won the tournament on a 1-0 complete 7 inning game. Home team up, bottom 7, runner on 3rd, 2 outs. #4 hitter up with 3-2 count. we couldn't get a curve ball by her; she fouled off about 5 in a row. Called time and talked to pitcher and catcher. Said we are going to try 1 more curve ball and if she fouls it, next pitch will go with a drop ball. Told Nicole (catcher) you MUST keep the drop in front of you, It will be in the dirt but you MUST stop it. Batter fouled off curve again. Drop ball hit plate, Nicole blocked it but couldn't control it. It spun off to 3rd base size. Nicole scrambled, got the ball and dove back with her glove just in front of plate and R1 slid into tag. Game over, championship won, I retired to umpiring. My favorite play of all time.

This story is a bit out of place, but since we are discussing WP a bit relevant. Ball in the dirt but no WP charged on this because the runner did not advance. Out at the plate to end a fantastic game.
A coach told my dd once
hit your spots let the defense do the work.
dd promptly responded if the defense put in the work i could miss my spot.
 
Whew....as the pitchers Dad...I guess I'm immune :)

I actually look at it...."why did my DD throw that WP...." And "thank you catcher for controlling what could have been a WP!"

A good catcher can make a good to above average pitcher look awesome. A bad catcher can make a good to above average pitcher look horrible. LOVE great catchers.
Yes a great catcher can be more valuable than a great pitcher. But when you have dropped 3rd strikes on no swings that gets to the backstop and the book keeper is asking how to score that all you can do is shake your head look for a different team.
 
Jun 6, 2016
2,714
113
Chicago
Yes a great catcher can be more valuable than a great pitcher.

Tell that to the mother of the pitcher who was so mad her DD lost out on team MVP to the catcher that she said they weren't going to play with us anymore.

Not that that happened to me this year or anything. :)
 

osagedr

Canadian Fastpitch Dad
Oct 20, 2016
280
28
FWIW, I have never once seen a pitch in the dirt be ruled a passed ball in any Major League game. The argument, I'm assuming, is that fielding any ball in the dirt requires something beyond ordinary effort. This is the true and correct argument, imo. If the Official Scorekeepers, presumably among the best in the world at that job, believe that Major League catchers, the best in the world at their jobs, cannot be expected to control a ball in the dirt with "ordinary effort," it's certainly wrong to expect any other catchers to be able to do so.



Maybe people squabble because other people make up their own rules for scoring games. Like in the example you just provided, which is absolutely NOT a stolen base if the runner wasn't stealing with the pitch. The runner advanced entirely because the person who threw the ball threw it in such a manner that the runner was able to advance a base when she otherwise would not have. This is a wild pitch.

(Also, someone can correct me if a specific softball scorekeeping rule contradicts the baseball rule, but the actual rules specifically say you're wrong here. See: The Official Scorer shall charge a pitcher with a wild pitch when a legally delivered ball touches the ground or home plate before reaching the catcher and is not handled by the catcher, thereby permitting a runner or runners to advance.)

LOL lighten up "Coach." BREAKING NEWS!!! Softball is not baseball, much less MLB. Changeups in the dirt are, AFAIK, much less a part of the pitching plan in MLB. Regardless, go ahead and score a pitch the way you want; I'll do the same and be okay with *gasp* being (wrong!!!!!). I'm not scoring an error on the pitcher (effectively what a "wild" pitch is saying) if the pitch was not "wild" and was delivered as intended, with the intended effect. Report me to the scoring police.
 
May 6, 2015
2,397
113
LOL lighten up "Coach." BREAKING NEWS!!! Softball is not baseball, much less MLB. Changeups in the dirt are, AFAIK, much less a part of the pitching plan in MLB. Regardless, go ahead and score a pitch the way you want; I'll do the same and be okay with *gasp* being (wrong!!!!!). I'm not scoring an error on the pitcher (effectively what a "wild" pitch is saying) if the pitch was not "wild" and was delivered as intended, with the intended effect. Report me to the scoring police.
so it is bad to score it as a WP/"error" on P, but not to score it as a PB/'Error" on C (and scoring a straight steal also is to detriment of C)? when it hits the dirt, often times the hop it takes is not very predictable (esp if it hits the plate or a cornere of the plate). yes, catcher should be able to block most, but most of the time this will only prevent the second base from being taken (many girls take off when they see it hit the dirt in my experience, as it will likely not be caught cleanly).

score it as the rules are written. trust me, WP are far down the list of stats people look at for pitchers (WHIP, ERA, K/BB ratio are all way more important, in fact GC does not display WP for standard pitching stats), while CS% and PB are pretty much a catchers primary stats.
 
Nov 18, 2013
2,255
113
LOL lighten up "Coach." BREAKING NEWS!!! Softball is not baseball, much less MLB. Changeups in the dirt are, AFAIK, much less a part of the pitching plan in MLB. Regardless, go ahead and score a pitch the way you want; I'll do the same and be okay with *gasp* being (wrong!!!!!). I'm not scoring an error on the pitcher (effectively what a "wild" pitch is saying) if the pitch was not "wild" and was delivered as intended, with the intended effect. Report me to the scoring police.

Why bother scoring if you’re not going to do it right?
 

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