Wild pitch versus passed ball

[Lobster Birch]

If you want to be right 90% of the time just mark it as a wild pitch.

 

[radness]

Do you actually mean the runner steals or do you mean the runner advances?

If the runner is stealing on the pitch (the only time "steal" is accurate), then it's a stolen base.

If the runner advances once the ball hits the dirt, it's a wild pitch (or a passed ball, depending on what is scored there). It's never an error if the runner advances on a wild pitch/passed ball.

This is all true even if we agree that some dirt pitches should be handled by a catcher, and in many cases, if they do it properly, the runner will not be able to advance.

Was making the point that

imo~ There certainly is an expectation, that while some pitches may go in the dirt,
REGARDLESS of catchers mechanics to the dirt pitch,
runners should NOT be able to steal!
(Sayin' just because pitch goes in dirt not automatic free base)
How and where pitch bounces, similar to short hop or outfielders throw, can be either handled or cause a problem WP.
There can be an expectation to make/finish the play with pitches/ throws in the dirt !

 

[Chris8]

It depends on wether the book keeper is the pitchers mom or the catchers mom

Whew....as the pitchers Dad...I guess I'm immune

I actually look at it...."why did my DD throw that WP...." And "thank you catcher for controlling what could have been a WP!"

A good catcher can make a good to above average pitcher look awesome. A bad catcher can make a good to above average pitcher look horrible. LOVE great catchers.

 

[osagedr]

If it's in the dirt, it's a WP.

I've argued this with DD's team's scorekeeper. DD is a pitcher, scorekeeper's kid is a catcher. If coach calls for a pitch in the dirt, and DD bounces it, and C doesn't block it, he'll call it a passed ball every time. He believes that if the catcher is expecting a pitch in the dirt and DD puts the ball where it's called, then there's no excuse for the catcher to let the ball past her. I disagree, but I'll never win with him when it comes to his kid.

This is where the NCAA "rule" quoted above causes problems. It makes no sense to call a pitch "wild" just because it's in the dirt, when it's supposed to be in the dirt. I do GC all the time, watch every pitch, and whether the pitch is in the dirt or not, determine whether the ball is a wild pitch or a passed ball solely based upon whether it could have been caught by the catcher "with normal effort." If there is offspeed in the dirt, blocked properly by the catcher, and the baserunner advances, I am likely to award a stolen base. The pitcher did not make a mistake. The catcher did not make a mistake. The baserunner stole the base appropriately.

Only reason ppl squabble about these things is b/c of DD's stats. Sad.

 

[radness]

How about no wild pitches?!
Lets do our best to prevent them from happening!
Go Defense!

 

[osagedr]

It if bounces it's a WP. It's like a throw from in IF to first. Now that doesn't mean I don't blame the C for not blocking of think the 1B should scoop the throw but it still on the thrower.

No, it really isn't like a throw from in IF to first. Pitchers intentionally bounce pitches. IF'ers do not intentionally bounce throws to first (except maybe occasionally in MLB).

 

[radness]

No, it really isn't like a throw from in IF to first. Pitchers intentionally bounce pitches. IF'ers do not intentionally bounce throws to first (except maybe occasionally in MLB).

actually you just expressed it can happen in the infield.
Does happen in fastpitch also!
ss deep in hole long throw...
Some coaches want catchers to throw to 2nd skipping in the dirt.
(not me)

Both pitchers and defensive players can intentionally throw to the dirt.

It may be more relevant to address a pitch/throw taking a wild bounce vs. just hitting the dirt?!
Which, i get it , is caused by being intentionally or not thrown to the dirt.
Certainly there IS AN EXPECTATION that the defense should be able to handle certain bouncing, skimming, short hop pitch/throws.

 

[canyonjoe]

No, it really isn't like a throw from in IF to first. Pitchers intentionally bounce pitches. IF'ers do not intentionally bounce throws to first (except maybe occasionally in MLB).

Totally disagree. You can make a perfect pitch as called but if you throw it in the dirt (even on purpose) you run the risk of getting a WP. What's really sad is how much time parents wasted on what it's called. In the end all that matters is that runners moved up and for some reason everyone wants to blame someone. Most good C's will stop most of them but the ones that get by are still WP's. In my opinion CG and Iscore will evolve to allow more stats on this type of thing. If you really are evaluating stats counting the number of would be WP's the C stops would be a nice feature. Allowing for unforced versus forced errors in the field is another. At some point scoring should evolve to allow for a team error when a popup just drops in the field when no one calls for it etc.

 

[Hillhouse]

I wouldn't know... I only ever had PB's, never any WP's. EVER. EVER.

 

[uncdrew]

I mean if you asking this because you are a scorekeeper or just want to be informed, then kudos. Otherwise who cares...I know when my kid should have made a play or not...

If you are asking because your kid is getting charged with more WP than you think she should..again who cares. Doubt anybody is going to lose a scholarship because they have too many WP in GC..

Edit: Yes I am a cynical SOB..

Agreed. My DD is a pitcher and I assign her all kinds of WP. No one really cares. We care about balls and strikes and outs and walks. But the number of WP? Nah.