- May 22, 2012
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you won't get rung up on a questionable pitch, and/or be forced to hit the pitchers best corner pitch if you have the mindset of putting the first pitch in play if right down the middle!
Swinging at first pitch vs working the count
- Thread starter mizunomp37
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Like others have said I prefer to select a specific pitch in a smaller part of the zone to sit on for 1st pitch. For me when I played BB that was usually FB middle in but depending on the pitcher and pattern if could have been something else. For example if I noticed a pitcher trying to steal strike with a get me over curve ball I might sit on that an look for a hanger.
I guess the term I'd use is to encourage the girls to be "selectively aggressive" on the 1st pitch.
I guess the term I'd use is to encourage the girls to be "selectively aggressive" on the 1st pitch.
I somewhat agree .. I think "selectively aggressive" is where you want them to end up but what I see in 14u is not that ... too many two hoppers to SS for easy outs. It is more futile than it should be.
I think early in season having them take first pitch but explain for what reason would be helpful .. then after a bit asking them what they see and how they want to respond?
A little socratic teaching.
Does anyone else see this? I don't think I am imagining it.
What are your hitters doing in the warm up circle/on deck? Chatting with their BF's? Shouldn't they be looking at the pitcher warming up? Shouldn't you the coach/dad be looking at the pitcher as she warms up. I tell my DD first 2 strikes are hers. The last strike your hitting the umpires strike. I don't care what the count is first pitch that you see that you like swing. Of course sometimes game situations dictates when you can swing or take a pitch.
A little socratic teaching.
The Socratic method (also known as method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate), named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates, is a form of inquiry and discussion between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to illuminate ideas. It is a dialectical method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict himself in some way, thus strengthening the inquirer's own point.
The phrase Socratic questioning is used to describe a kind of questioning in which an original question is responded to as though it were an answer. This in turn forces the first questioner to reformulate a new question in light of the progress of the discourse
A little socratic teaching.
The Socratic method (also known as method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate), named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates, is a form of inquiry and discussion between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to illuminate ideas. It is a dialectical method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict himself in some way, thus strengthening the inquirer's own point.
The phrase Socratic questioning is used to describe a kind of questioning in which an original question is responded to as though it were an answer. This in turn forces the first questioner to reformulate a new question in light of the progress of the discourse
Last edited:
- Apr 1, 2010
- 1,673
- 0
I like that "selectively aggressive" terminology. Makes sense to me. Seems like the team is giving too much advantage to the pitcher anytime your batters are too predictable.
I've got no problem with DD taking a swing at the 1st pitch as long as 1) she didn't get a take sign and 2) she takes a good cut. IMO if a girl likes the pitch enough to swing, she ought to be swinging as hard at 0-0 as she would if she'd been working a while and was ahead in the count.
Greenmonsters
Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
"Selectively aggressive" is what you want them to be, but without explanation it doesn't mean much different than keep your eye on the ball to most young hitters. Yes, they'll nod and say they understand because they want to please you, but it most likely will just cause them to pre-select the 1st, 2nd, etc. pitch and swing at it - regardless where/what it is!
Teach them the Go Zone concept and the concept that they are swinging at every pitch unless its not in the zone, which changes depending on the count (and game situation). Help them identify the location/pitch that they hit best (more than you'd think don't really know or have never thought about it). Only pitches in their hot zone are what they should be swinging at with 0 strikes. With 1 strike, the Go Zone expands and gets a little bigger, but still should only include locations/pitches that they can consistently hit well. With 2 strikes, the Go Zone expands to include anything the umpire may call a strike. (With more advanced hitters the concept gets modified so that the location of the 0 or 1-strike Go Zone is dynamic and vary during/between at bats).
A visual aid can be used to help explain and demonstrate the concept. KnightSB posted 2 effective examples in this older post
http://www.discussfastpitch.com/sof...isual-approach-strike-zone-go-zone-count.html
You can make your own version or print one out, but have each girl go through the exercise of IDing her 0, 1, and 2-strike Go Zone and they'll have greater success being selectively aggressive.
Teach them the Go Zone concept and the concept that they are swinging at every pitch unless its not in the zone, which changes depending on the count (and game situation). Help them identify the location/pitch that they hit best (more than you'd think don't really know or have never thought about it). Only pitches in their hot zone are what they should be swinging at with 0 strikes. With 1 strike, the Go Zone expands and gets a little bigger, but still should only include locations/pitches that they can consistently hit well. With 2 strikes, the Go Zone expands to include anything the umpire may call a strike. (With more advanced hitters the concept gets modified so that the location of the 0 or 1-strike Go Zone is dynamic and vary during/between at bats).
A visual aid can be used to help explain and demonstrate the concept. KnightSB posted 2 effective examples in this older post
http://www.discussfastpitch.com/sof...isual-approach-strike-zone-go-zone-count.html
You can make your own version or print one out, but have each girl go through the exercise of IDing her 0, 1, and 2-strike Go Zone and they'll have greater success being selectively aggressive.
Greenmonsters post:
A Visual Approach to the Strike Zone and Go Zone by Count
A visual reference is often the most usefull tool to help the players understand the strike zone and what pitches they should be swinging at in different counts and situations.
For convenience, let's assume that a softball is 4 inches in diameter. As the plate is 17 inches wide, that equals approx 4 balls wide (forget about the 1/2" left over on each corner for now). Assuming a good sized strike zone on an average U12-U18 player, from the knees to base of sternum is approx. 24-28", which is approx. 6 or 7 balls tall. This essentially gives us a 4x6 or 4x7 grid of the strike zone. Adding a row to each side and top and bottom of the grid essentially represents the "strike zone +1 ball out", which needs to be considered with 2 strikes (and effectively picks up the 1/2" corner leftovers). Your grid is now 6 wide x 8 or 9 high. Draw this grid out, ID the strike zone as you like based on player size, print it, and give a copy to each player. (Note: you can use boxes to represent each one of the 48 or 54 grid spaces, but I find that circles representing softballs to be more relevant and memorable (you can do a down and dirty demo of the grid concept using a flat surface and actual softballs to similar effect).
Use this grid to have the girls think about or even color code the grids where: 1) they like balls to hit (their happy zone or sweet spot) and 2) don't like balls to hit and then talk about it. You may be surprised by what you do (or don't) hear. Conclude by using the graphic to discuss what area and how big an area of the grid the "Swing or Go Zone" for different counts and situations are consistent with your team's hitting approach (for example, I like a 9 grid go zone for an 0-0 count and a 4-6 grid go zone for 3-0 counts). Couple the grid visual w/ the concept of swinging at every pitch unless it's not in the "Go Zone" (for the count and situation) and your hitters will become more disciplined, aggressive, and successful.
To the graphically-gifted DFP posting pros - please feel feel to provide a grid visual!
FWIW - there was a previous thread talking about protecting the plate or expanding the zone with 2 strikes. Like anyone else, I much prefer a hitter to take matters into her own hands rather than leaving it up to the umpire on a close pitch with 2 strikes; however, just remember that expanding the plate by +1 ball in all directions almost doubles the "go zone" i.e., that 4x7 grid w/ 28 squares now just increased to 6 x 9 w/ a total of 54 squares! And, oh yeah, this all assumes a "Pitch-track" perfect umpire! Your experience may vary, adjust accordingly.
A Visual Approach to the Strike Zone and Go Zone by Count
A visual reference is often the most usefull tool to help the players understand the strike zone and what pitches they should be swinging at in different counts and situations.
For convenience, let's assume that a softball is 4 inches in diameter. As the plate is 17 inches wide, that equals approx 4 balls wide (forget about the 1/2" left over on each corner for now). Assuming a good sized strike zone on an average U12-U18 player, from the knees to base of sternum is approx. 24-28", which is approx. 6 or 7 balls tall. This essentially gives us a 4x6 or 4x7 grid of the strike zone. Adding a row to each side and top and bottom of the grid essentially represents the "strike zone +1 ball out", which needs to be considered with 2 strikes (and effectively picks up the 1/2" corner leftovers). Your grid is now 6 wide x 8 or 9 high. Draw this grid out, ID the strike zone as you like based on player size, print it, and give a copy to each player. (Note: you can use boxes to represent each one of the 48 or 54 grid spaces, but I find that circles representing softballs to be more relevant and memorable (you can do a down and dirty demo of the grid concept using a flat surface and actual softballs to similar effect).
Use this grid to have the girls think about or even color code the grids where: 1) they like balls to hit (their happy zone or sweet spot) and 2) don't like balls to hit and then talk about it. You may be surprised by what you do (or don't) hear. Conclude by using the graphic to discuss what area and how big an area of the grid the "Swing or Go Zone" for different counts and situations are consistent with your team's hitting approach (for example, I like a 9 grid go zone for an 0-0 count and a 4-6 grid go zone for 3-0 counts). Couple the grid visual w/ the concept of swinging at every pitch unless it's not in the "Go Zone" (for the count and situation) and your hitters will become more disciplined, aggressive, and successful.
To the graphically-gifted DFP posting pros - please feel feel to provide a grid visual!
FWIW - there was a previous thread talking about protecting the plate or expanding the zone with 2 strikes. Like anyone else, I much prefer a hitter to take matters into her own hands rather than leaving it up to the umpire on a close pitch with 2 strikes; however, just remember that expanding the plate by +1 ball in all directions almost doubles the "go zone" i.e., that 4x7 grid w/ 28 squares now just increased to 6 x 9 w/ a total of 54 squares! And, oh yeah, this all assumes a "Pitch-track" perfect umpire! Your experience may vary, adjust accordingly.
Not sure if there should be a goal of seeing more pitches/working the count.
Here are the top 10 batters in the American League in pitches seen per plate appearance:
.258 – Mike Napoli
.211 – Adam Dunn
.303 - Jason Kipnis
.271 – Carlos Santana
.213 - Mark Reynolds
.224 – Josh Willingham
.320 – Joe Mauer
.252 – Jose Bautista
,232 – Brian Dozier
.280 – Brett Gardner
Fairly random.
Dan Uggla is 4th in the NL. He’s hitting .197.
Here are the top 10 batters in the American League in pitches seen per plate appearance:
.258 – Mike Napoli
.211 – Adam Dunn
.303 - Jason Kipnis
.271 – Carlos Santana
.213 - Mark Reynolds
.224 – Josh Willingham
.320 – Joe Mauer
.252 – Jose Bautista
,232 – Brian Dozier
.280 – Brett Gardner
Fairly random.
Dan Uggla is 4th in the NL. He’s hitting .197.
I don't disagree but maybe it's worth charting your team to see how this plays out. If a team is a good, disciplined bunch then it's a non issue and does not need to be brought up but if the numbers show a trend of futility then what's the harm in helping them learn a bit of plate discipline and then turn them loose. It's a matter of doing what helps a girl become a better hitter by knowing what potential weakness she may have ... not saying its for everyone but it may have a place in coaching.
It's just a piece of the puzzle.
