When does the look back rule take effect?

[shockcoach]

This part is a little confusing. It sounds like the runner can be off the base and stop before the pitcher has the ball, "legitimately off a base" (as is normal if not stealing), and start to advance to the next base during the throw back to the pitcher (delayed steal) and then "while the pitcher has control of the ball", be able to "stop once" and go back. But I'm pretty sure they would be called out if the pitcher did not atempt to make a play. Is this an often misinterpreted rule or am I just reading it wrong? I had a runner at 1st last year get called out, walking back toward first during the throw back to the pitcher, and turning around and walking backwards the last 2 steps. Ump said she stoped when she turned around, and the pitcher had the ball when she did.

The bold part is correct. They can walk all the way to 2nd base, stop and immediately return to 1st if they so choose. There are a few umpires around here that don't fully grasp the rule. I had a runner called out last year in ASA ball who had a base on balls. She turned the corner at 1st and returned back to 1st while the ball was in the circle. I argued with the umpire but I did not protest his call. That was my mistake.

 

[BretMan]

There are a few umpires around here that don't fully grasp the rule...

And a fair share of coaches, too.

A couple of weeks ago I was working an indoor tournament. Batter receives ball four, hustles to first, rounds the bag toward second base, stops, then immediately returns to first.

Defensive coach argues that she can't do that! I explain that the runner is allowed to stop and return. Coach then says, "But she can't do that on a walk!".

...sigh....

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Bret, It absolutely drives me crazy. The LBR isn't anything new. I would hope that the coach educated himself, after that.

I still remember one from when my DD was 12, she rounded 2nd and the P raised her arm to throw. My DD, knowing the rule, preceded to 3rd. The home ump called her out.

 

[shockcoach]

And a fair share of coaches, too.

I concur. I would say there are more coaches than umpires who do not understand the rule. I was trying to not knock on umpires. I've been behind the plate many of times and treat blue very well during a game.

 

[FPMark]

The look back rule is the most missunderstood rule by both coaches and umpires. I agree that umpires are much more knowledgable about rules than coaches, but it only takes 1 wrong call by 1 ump to teach 6 to 8 coaches wrong. Part of the reason coaches don't understand it is because they don't study the rule book and instead rely on the umpires to teach them. Then when it gets called incorectly, it's gospel. Then they start teaching their players based on incorrect information. Then they will argue till they are blue in the face if another ump doesn't call it the same way against a team they are playing against.

Could have been shockcoach's oppossing coach that argued with BretMan!

 

[MTR]

This part is a little confusing. It sounds like the runner can be off the base and stop before the pitcher has the ball, "legitimately off a base" (as is normal if not stealing), and start to advance to the next base during the throw back to the pitcher (delayed steal) and then "while the pitcher has control of the ball", be able to "stop once" and go back.

This is 100% correct.

But I'm pretty sure they would be called out if the pitcher did not atempt to make a play. Is this an often misinterpreted rule or am I just reading it wrong?

No, they should not since the LBR was not in effect until the pitcher possessed the ball in the circle. Until that happens, the runner can to backflips back and forth and all the way to the RF fence if they want.

I had a runner at 1st last year get called out, walking back toward first during the throw back to the pitcher, and turning around and walking backwards the last 2 steps. Ump said she stoped when she turned around, and the pitcher had the ball when she did.

If I'm reading this correctly, the runner started toward 2nd then turned/pivoted and continued toward 2nd base backwards.

Well, the umpire considered the turn/pivot a hesitation in her forward progress. Was it the Washington game last year in the NCAA Championship where the runner on 3rd was returning slowly and shifted her weight which appeared like a hesitation? I saw it on TV and immediately thought "oh no" and then the umpire killed the play and enforced the LBR.

Remember, umpires do not look at things the same as others. They are trained to observe and look for specific things.

 

[FPMark]

Actually, the runner was on 1st, took her lead on the pitch, and then was returning to 1st before the catcher threw the ball back to the pitcher. When the pitcher recieved the ball she was almost back. What she did was turn around facing 2nd but backing up to 1st to get in position on the bag. My objection was that she turned around without stopping, but after rereading the rule, it sounds like it shouldn't have matered if she did.

 

[MTR]

My objection was that she turned around without stopping, but after rereading the rule, it sounds like it shouldn't have matered if she did.

Well, apparently the umpire, whose judgment is the one that counts, believed otherwise.

 

[99&beyond]

OK for arguments sake let say she ran past first base started to return and says my shoe is untied and stops to tie shoe. You are saying she is out.

Personally I think this would be a dumb thing to do. She can wait to tie her shoe when she gets back on base. If she hit a double or triple, would she stop between bases then to tie or would she keep on running?

 

[FPMark]

Well, apparently the umpire, whose judgment is the one that counts, believed otherwise.

This is why I say the rule is misunderstood. If you read the rule, her 'stopping' should not have been a violation. The umpires judgement of whether she did or not does not change the rule. Obviously, we both misunderstood the rule.