When does the look back rule take effect?

[FPMark]

How often does that happen, without her calling time?.. verses runners called out for LBR?

 

[BretMan]

She could actually round 1st, stop, then go to second. But if she did, she couldn't round 2nd and stop again unless she wanted to be called out for the look back rule.

Actually, she could stop again after rounding second base.

The Look Back Rule says that when the runner stops between bases, she must immediately either retreat to the last base or advance to the next one. Once she does advance to the next base, she has met the requirement of the rule. So, if she rounds the next base she is allowed one stop between the next two bases.

 

[MTR]

But, as the current rule is, if the pitcher does not have control of the ball, we can go. For instance, she lays the ball down to tie her shoe.

Again, the rule was NOT meant as a strategy. Any intelligent coach would instruct their pitcher to forget her damn shoe until the umpire calls time. It's not rocket science, the SP group have it figured out.

BTW, you ever notice how those SP games which score 5x-10x more runs and still finish 7 innings in 2/3 of the time it takes to complete a FP game? Ya think that is because the just play the game and don't have to worry about all the chicken shirt that goes on in the JO game?

 

[FPMark]

Actually, she could stop again after rounding second base.

The Look Back Rule says that when the runner stops between bases, she must immediately either retreat to the last base or advance to the next one. Once she does advance to the next base, she has met the requirement of the rule. So, if she rounds the next base she is allowed one stop between the next two bases.

LOL!!...Man, now I am confused, you're KILLIN' me. Thanks Bretman! I thought the way it was worded the runner could only stop once, unless the pitcher attempts a play, or 'bluffs' a play. Didn't see any thing in there say she could stop between each base. Please tell me which rule that comes from.... research continues. Unless you're pulling my leg. I WILL know this rule soon... I hope.

P.S. Any other 'wrinkles' in this rule would also be appreciated.

 

[BretMan]

The rule does say that when the runner stops between bases, she must immediately advance or retreat and cannot stop a second time in between those two bases- not that she can never stop again. Once she reaches the next base she has met the requirement of the rule to "advance to the next base". If she rounds that base, her allowance to "stop one time in between bases" begins anew- in between those next two bases.

This isn't specifically spelled out under the rule. This interpretation was given to me by a member of the ASA National Umpire Staff when I asked him a "what if" question about the Look Back Rule (as in "what if the runner reaches the next base- can she stop again?).

Pretty rare occurance for this to happen. I think that I have seen it happen maybe one time.

 

[FPMark]

I would doubt it has ever happened. I can't imagine a pitcher standing in the circle, holding the ball, and not even acting like she might try to throw the runner out. But if she did, I don't know that the runner could stop a second time without the rule being changed. It doesn't say "in between bases" anywhere in the rule. It just says "the runner may stop once". Lets say that did happen in a game, but the runner was called out. If the offensive team protested the call, I see no evidence in the rule book to overturn the call. Conversely, if she wasn't called out and the defensive team were to protest, I don't know how it could not be overturned based on the wording in the rule.

I can respect the opinion of an umpire on the ASA National Umpire Staff, but opinions are not the same as rules. In a dispute the wording of the rule is what counts.

 

[BretMan]

I can respect the opinion of an umpire on the ASA National Umpire Staff, but opinions are not the same as rules. In a dispute the wording of the rule is what counts.

I think that this interpretation is supported by "the wording" of the rule.

The first part of the rule says that it applies "when a runner is legitimately off a base". Saying "between bases" would be redundant. When is a runner ever "off a base" but not between two bases?

The next part of the rule says that a runner "off a base" (ie: between bases) may stop one time. She then "must immediately return to the base or attempt to advance to the next base". Once she has successfully advanced to the next base, she has met the requirement of the rule.

I see pitchers hold the ball while a runner advances fairly often. This is common when there is a runner on third and a batter-runner advancing to first. The one time I can recall seeing this was just such a scenario. On a walk, the batter-runner rounded first, stopped, then immediately headed to second. The pitcher held the ball and gave up the base to prevent the runner on third from scoring. Batter-runner then rounded second, stopped again, then immediately returned to second.

 

[Comp]

Attempting to advance to 2nd on a walk with runner on 3rd usually only happens in younger and lower levels of play. Any good 12 and older team can defend this and will many times end up with both runners out. You will very seldom see a walked batter attempt to advance in higher levels of play.

Throwing the ball to first actually makes it far more difficult to defend because you are removing the rule from your use. With the look back rule in effect, once the batter touches first base, the runner at 3rd must immediately advance to home or return to 3rd. If you throw the ball to 1st, that runner at 3rd can get as big a lead as she dares and just stand there. If your players work the play correctly, the pitcher does nothing as the batter touches first, makes the runner at 3 commit back to the base, then make a quick throw to 2nd for the tag, and if runner at 3 attempts to advance you now have a throw to home.

 

[MTR]

Attempting to advance to 2nd on a walk with runner on 3rd usually only happens in younger and lower levels of play. Any good 12 and older team can defend this and will many times end up with both runners out. You will very seldom see a walked batter attempt to advance in higher levels of play.

Throwing the ball to first actually makes it far more difficult to defend because you are removing the rule from your use. With the look back rule in effect, once the batter touches first base, the runner at 3rd must immediately advance to home or return to 3rd. If you throw the ball to 1st, that runner at 3rd can get as big a lead as she dares and just stand there. If your players work the play correctly, the pitcher does nothing as the batter touches first, makes the runner at 3 commit back to the base, then make a quick throw to 2nd for the tag, and if runner at 3 attempts to advance you now have a throw to home.

Hey, knock it off! Trying to infuse common sense and intelligent play. What the hell is the matter with you

 

[Comp]

Sorry, wont let it happen again.