When does the look back rule take effect?

[coachdan]

OK here is my question ......the batter hits a ground ball to SS and runs past first base and beats the throw ....safe. Now when the runner/hitter is returning to first base....lets say very slowly...the ball is in the circle, can she be called out even if she stops while returning to first base.

My interpertation of the rule is that until she has returned to first base the look back rule does not take effect?


Here is my goal ...when she is returning to the base I get the runner to return very slowly and if defense is not paying attention we go to second. I had an UMP tell me that if she stopped returning to the bag he was going to call her out based on the look back rule......thoughts

 

[Amy in AZ.]

The look back rule is in effect as soon as she touches first base. Your runner has to immediately return to the base or immediately run to 2nd.

Returning verrrrrrrrry slowly is not going to qualify as immediate.

 

[Comp]

ASA rule supplement 34. If after overrunning 1st base, the runner turns and begins to return directly to 1st base, they have committed to 1st. If the ball is in the circle and no play is being made on them or any other runner, the runner would be out for a lookback violation if they attempted to advance. They would also be guilty of a lookback violation if they stopped while returning to 1st after overrunning.

This isnt an exact quote of rule supplement 34, it is paraphrasing only a portion of it.

 

[MTR]

OK here is my question ......the batter hits a ground ball to SS and runs past first base and beats the throw ....safe. Now when the runner/hitter is returning to first base....lets say very slowly...the ball is in the circle, can she be called out even if she stops while returning to first base.

My interpertation of the rule is that until she has returned to first base the look back rule does not take effect?

LBR takes effect when the pitcher has possession of the ball in the circle and the BR has either touched 1B or been put out.

Here is my goal ...when she is returning to the base I get the runner to return very slowly and if defense is not paying attention we go to second. I had an UMP tell me that if she stopped returning to the bag he was going to call her out based on the look back rule......thoughts

The umpire is correct. If the pitcher has the ball, the reversal to 1B was the runner's allowed stop. A second stop or reversal and the umpire should rule the runner out.

 

[coachdan]

OK for arguments sake let say she ran past first base started to return and says my shoe is untied and stops to tie shoe. You are saying she is out.

 

[coachdan]

The umpire is correct. If the pitcher has the ball, the reversal to 1B was the runner's allowed stop. A second stop or reversal and the umpire should rule the runner out.[/QUOTE]

Runner can still advance while returning to first as long as she continues to second with out stopping...correct???

 

[Comp]

If she is off the base and hasnt called time and granted time, yes, she could be called out for a lookback violation.

No, if the batter overruns first, turns and heads back toward first base and the ball is in possession of the pitcher in the circle, the runner has committed back to first base and must return immediately to first. If they suddenly peel off and head for 2nd, they would be guilty of a lookback violation.

 

[coachdan]

No, if the batter overruns first, turns and heads back toward first base and the ball is in possession of the pitcher in the circle, the runner has committed back to first base and must return immediately to first. If they suddenly peel off and head for 2nd, they would be guilty of a lookback violation.[/QUOTE]

I have seen this senario several times in the last 2 months. On my daughters college team they pull this off about once every game and runner has not been called out via the LBR yet. So guess what I did ,....i tried it with my 14u travel team and never been called out for it.

 

[shockcoach]

NCAA rules are different. I believe that call that particular move the Theresa Wilson rule. Theresa argued it into the rulebook somehow. She used to do it during her days as head coach of the UW Huskies. It is not the same in ASA, NSA, USSSA or the rest of the alphabet soups.

 

[TowPilot]

We see this here by some coaches. Umps call it both ways so you can't depend on them to make the call. I pretty much know which teams are going to try this and for those teams we defense against this situation. If the play is at first the first basemen basically escorts the player back to first before throwing to the pitcher. If the ball is in the pitchers hand the pitcher's eyes are on the running until the runner is standing on first. When trained for this situation in practice it is an easy out even if the ump doesn't call it. This also means that the SS is alert and covering 2nd and if there is a runner on 3rd we prefer to have the 2nd basement make the tag mid basepath which reduces the length of the throw home if the runner on 3rd decides to go.