What is IR?

[SoCalSoftballdad]

One key thing to keep in mind re: Internal Rotation is that after the ball leaves the hand at release (6 o'clock), where you finish with your arm and hand has ZERO effect on the pitch. That is why IMO the whole focus on IR should be what happens PRIOR TO release and just let the hand and arm finish naturally somewhere out in front of the body (e.g. arm goes up to the left shoulder; hand flops around like a butterfly, etc).

Getting the arm and hand in the "correct slot" from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock is where the arm whip (IR) happens, generating all of the speed and spin on the ball. The FINISH is just the by-product of proper mechanics that are happening well upstream of the actual release of the ball.

 

[dbias]

One key thing to keep in mind re: Internal Rotation is that after the ball leaves the hand at release (6 o'clock), where you finish with your arm and hand has ZERO effect on the pitch. That is why IMO the whole focus on IR should be what happens PRIOR TO release and just let the hand and arm finish naturally somewhere out in front of the body (e.g. arm goes up to the left shoulder; hand flops around like a butterfly, etc).

Getting the arm and hand in the "correct slot" from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock is where the arm whip (IR) happens, generating all of the speed and spin on the ball. The FINISH is just the by-product of proper mechanics that are happening well upstream of the actual release of the ball.

The most important part of ir happens btwn 3 and 6 o'clock. I've always taken that ir was what happened before release and that the finish is a byproduct of that. Having the elbow lead down into 3 oclock and getting the palm up inside the ball allows the whip to be increased.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n2hddAXrvY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[LAdad]

With all that's been written about IR it's still unclear to me. Is IR something that just happens naturally because of the way wrist, elbow, and shoulder work? Is it something that all effective pitchers do, or are there other styles of pitching that don't use it? Are those pitchers even aware that they use IR? Do you specifically teach it, or does it come naturally as long as you don't specifically teach the opposite? What is the opposite anyway? It might be enlightening to see video of someone who fails to have IR.

 

[Hillhouse]

LA... I think it's something that SHOULD happen naturally. However, because of what a lot of PC's teach, it does not hiappen naturally. Sometimes what they teach is the opposite of this so called "IR" thing. Personally, I never read the "IR" thread all the way through. I read bits and pieces and stopped when my head was spinning. I'm not saying I disagree with it or have issues with those who believe in this thing so passionately. But it goes back to the age old question I've asked since I got into the coaching "business"... why would anyone take their DD to a PC that is teaching things OPPOSITE of what you see the best pitcher in the world (male and female) actually doing? Even if you are a layman and don't understand the complexities of "IR" (like me), it doesn't take much to see the differences for yourself of what is being taught vs. what you see GREAT pitchers doing. With that said, it seems everyone's idea of "great" is different. But that's a subject for another time.

Bill

 

[Hillhouse]

IR is a name put to part of the pitching motion by analytical adults (males, sorry, but it's true) trying to understand it, using slo-mo video that is now easy to have at their fingertips, that's it. These analysts are not pitchers.
.

Forgive me here screwball... what does males have to do with it?

 

[Hillhouse]

I see. Thanks for explaining.

 

[Ken Krause]

I taught it for year before I ever heard the term. I'd just characterize it as "pitching correctly."

 

[ArmWhip]

I pitched in a local modified league for 20+ years. There were only 3-4 guys in all those years who used IR, the rest were all pushers. When my daughter wanted to become a pitcher I took her to 4-5 different pitching coaches, one was a former All American, Olympic gold medal winner and Pro Fastpitch pitcher, they all taught the wrist snap-push method. I decide to teach her myself, since then I have seen another half dozen pitching coaches in action and none of them teach IR. In my experience pitching is not taught correctly by most coaches. Having a technical term to help describe correct mechanics is a big first step on the road to educating coaches and parents about what really happens in a mechanically sound pitching motion. On several occasions now the use of the term IR has prompted people to ask questions, that's good. These same people, parents mostly, go on to report how this (IR) is not the way their daughters have been taught. So the term IR is good a thing, it's helping more people understand proper pitching mechanics.

 

[LAdad]

What Bill Hillhouse and Screwball said makes perfect sense to me (even the male part).

But

When my daughter wanted to become a pitcher I took her to 4-5 different pitching coaches, one was a former All American, Olympic gold medal winner and Pro Fastpitch pitcher, they all taught the wrist snap-push method. I decide to teach her myself, since then I have seen another half dozen pitching coaches in action and none of them teach IR.

that's a bit surprising. Does that mean that in particular the Pro Fastpitch pitcher taught something else than what she actually did? If there are so many coaches teaching the wrong thing, then I guess the successful pitchers are those who ignored their coaches.

[...] why would anyone take their DD to a PC that is teaching things OPPOSITE of what you see the best pitcher in the world (male and female) actually doing? Even if you are a layman and don't understand the complexities of "IR" (like me), it doesn't take much to see the differences for yourself of what is being taught vs. what you see GREAT pitchers doing. With that said, it seems everyone's idea of "great" is different. But that's a subject for another time.

For real laymen it is hard to distinguish which differences are significant and which are just style. On top of that, few parents of young rec ball players actually see a lot of D1 pitchers playing. And even if they do, the gap with an 8yo is so large that they can't really see how to get there from where they are. For them, a "great" pitcher is more likely the 12yo in their league who can throw 40mph. That's who they'll try to emulate (for instance, by using the same pitching coach).

Or even simpler: When I wanted a pitching coach for my daughter, someone gave me a list with names and phone numbers. My choice was based only on the fact that she was a woman and that her area code indicated she was nearby.

 

[dbias]

Woman, Man.... doesnt matter to me. I wanted to see them pitch. My DD goes to a male PC who is on USA team as an OF/C. He does not use the term IR when teaching pitching but slomo shows that DD does it. Because he can throw pitches so well I think this also makes him awesome as a hitting instructor as well. My DD struggles anytime she gets near a pitching machine so it is worth the extra money to have him pitch to her. With her being 14 he can throw what she will see in HS and 14u and near the end of lesson he will throw more challenging stuff at her and she is getting good at hiiting the more advanced stuff. He has even taught her to call out the pitch at delivery for those pitchers who use a non-Hillhouse delivery and telegraph what is coming. Being a pitcher herself she recognizes what the girl has to do to make the ball move and reacts accordingly. in her last nine at bats she has six HR in a combination of game and scrimmage settings, so she and he are doing something right.
When teaching hitting to my DD he never uses the term "the move", but I know that is what she does. So to get caught in a battle of terms is not what we should be concerned about but instead look at what the best are doing and know that the way they are doing things, and a lot of desire, has gotten them where they are today.