What is IR?

[SoCalSoftballdad]

Does that mean that in particular the Pro Fastpitch pitcher taught something else than what she actually did? If there are so many coaches teaching the wrong thing, then I guess the successful pitchers are those who ignored their coaches.

I am finding out that this is exactly what is happening! When I first took my DD to her successful and very busy D1 pitching coach she taught her the "push the ball down the circle, pull up with elbow to catcher" nonsense. I didn't know any better but thank god my DD figured out on her own that everytime she threw the pitch using arm whip (IR) the pitch had more speed and 12 -6 spin on it.

For me, the Internal Rotation original post was eye opening because Boardmember did a great job of explaining how the shoulder, arm, and hand are predisposed to naturally rotate, with the palm facing inward towards the body. The flawed technique of pushing the ball down the circle and pointing the elbow to the catcher after release KILLS this natural arm whip (IR); and as many have pointed out, no decent pitcher actually does this. The other key point about IR is that the pitcher needs to be doing practice drills correctly that promote this arm whip. If you are a pitching coach and don't understand this, your students will likely struggle.

 

[Mike-Coach Q]

I agree, my hats off to Boardmember. I also taught ball towards 2nd base at the top of the circle until his IR post that I had to read 10 times to understand it. Here is a clip (no sound) showing a drill I have my pitchers do to help teach IR. I have noticed an improvement in my pitchers speed and accuracy. Good luck hope this helps, Mike
http://youtu.be/McTpKnOww0w

 

[ArmWhip]

One of the first coaches that we went to had group lessons, since we were beginners we were in the first class. We were in a gym with padding on the walls that went up to 7ft. She taught "push down, snap the wrist hard at the bottom for speed, finish palm up." It was a comical scene, about 6 girls all snapping their wrists hard, about half the pitches were landing above the padding banging loudly off the cinder block wall. After the session ended in came the 'advanced' class. Most of these pitchers could armwhip the ball pretty good, I waited for the instructor to correct them but she didn't. Some of the advanced girls were wrist snapping and had the same hi-lo control issues. So the girls who didn't do what the instructor told them to do were having some success and the girls who followed her directions were doomed. Successful pitchers often intuitively learn to armwhip or utilize the IR motion in spite of what they are taught.

 

[Jillsdad]

I agree, my hats off to Boardmember. I also taught ball towards 2nd base at the top of the circle until his IR post that I had to read 10 times to understand it. Here is a clip (no sound) showing a drill I have my pitchers do to help teach IR. I have noticed an improvement in my pitchers speed and accuracy. Good luck hope this helps, Mike
YouTube - ‪Internal Rotation‬‏

Can someone help me with proper hand position from 12-6 please? If you look at the girl in this video, her palm is facing down at 9, facing the catcher at 12, facing up at 3 and then rotating shut at 6. Is this correct? Because this is different than Pauly or Ueno, who seem to make an extra move - specifically that at 12 palm is facing 3rd, then palm is rotated hard so that by 3 palm is facing up. It is a subtle difference but I am trying to get it "right" (don't mean to hijack)

 

[ArmWhip]

It's splitting hairs, palm facing home or third at 12, I've seen it done both ways or any point in between. The girl in the video is releasing her arm whip (IR) action too early and is still pushing the ball into release. This drill is a good way to get started and with some fine tuning the pitcher might get it. I've seen a lot of girls get to this point and not develop any further. Without good slo-mo video this action looks acceptable, compared to bowling it is noticeably better but not finished.

 

[BoardMember]

Amazing.......It helps to have your facts straight.........

IR is a name put to part of the pitching motion by analytical adults (males, sorry, but it's true) trying to understand it, using slo-mo video that is now easy to have at their fingertips, that's it. These analysts are not pitchers.

I/R.....as I originally described it in the article........was geared toward helping a widely diverse cross-section of readers of this forum understand the difference between "whip" and "push".......From coaches to parents, to those simply interested in understanding what makes fastpitch pitchers "tick".....

It was writen by a pitcher and a very successful pitching coach, in response to questions from a few readers about creating velocity in the delivery......and the details of the mechanics that very few people understand.........

Using written word is difficult at best to explain the complexities of the high-level (vs. low level) windmill motion.......And using visual (slo-mo) reinforcement to enhance the understanding of the written word is beneficial to everyone.........Including you.......

It is no different then breaking down the mechanics of how to create proper backspin on a rise ball, or forward spin on a drop, or explaining how to use your legs to drive of the plate while maintaining dynamic balance with proper posture.......

I would not use the term to teach a student, regardless if it describes a desirable part of the motion (that you can teach without that term), one that we already knew about pre-slow-mo video. It is nothing new at all. Not sure what the fuss is about it.

The simple fact that YOU describe I/R as a "beneficial part of the motion" says enough.......

To say that I/R is "nothing new" isn't news either......And infact is a sour-grapes response to your lack of understanding as a (possible) pitcher and/or pitching coach to something you proclaim you are most proficient at.......Carrys an underlying message about you to our readers in my opinion..........

Explaining the motion in detail apparantly IS something "new" as indicated by the hugely positive response and greatly enhanced learning curve created by the article.........Which apparantly bothers you.........

If you have a bad teacher teaching some other thing, you don't need a term like this for the correct elements.

"Teaching some other thing"???........You mean something other then I/R???......Pretty funny statement.........

How the heck would anyone not familiar with proper mechanics know if a pitching coach was teaching "some other thing" if they didn't know what the right thing was???.........

Now they have that knowledge.........Which may expose you........Maybe that's what bothers you??

To me, it seems like people think they found some breakthrough but like what is said, the good pitchers do it without needing a strange term.

I/R is not a breakthough...........UNDERSTANDING IT is..........For hundreds of readers here..........

Best Regards.........

 

[nanotech14]

I have to say that putting a term like I/R has helped both me and most importanly my dd having a clearer understanding of what she wants the arm/elbow to do.Before it was more of a "your arm has to do this kind of thing" adding verbge to the motion ,has only enhanced her pitching.But I do think you need a term like I/R to understand way the other way is wrong,it also helps to show a PC that does teach the elbow up torwards your shoulder,that they need to consider what the top pitchers in the world are really doing. I have to agree with Boardmember on his post,

 

[LeftiesDad]

I would have to agree with BoardMember here. IR is not a hard concept to understand and reading these posts in conjunction with the videos had greatly enhanced both my and my DD's understanding of the goal for her arm motion and whip.

We work with one of the TOP PC's in the area. This PC was a very successful pitcher on the national and international level. The PC will take video and point out that the student needs to lead more with the elbow on the downswing (demonstrating that PC knows what the proper motion is) and, in fact, does the proper thing when demonstrating. This same PC also teaches snaps, follow through to the pitching arm shoulder and was coaching my DD to "get on top of the ball" just past 12 for her peel drop (demonstrating that PC does not understand IR).

This PC coaches some of the best pitchers in the state and has had many go on to play D1 ball, they all demonstrate proper IR despite coaching they have received. So yes some people will find it naturally. Others may not or may even be coached away from it, such as my DD, in attempting to be coachable and following precisely what is being taught.

Not to knock the PC, she knows a lot about what it takes to be a pitcher and is great from the mental aspect of the game. PC wants the pitchers to be mentally strong and know how to adjust and read batters to better make the batters "look stupid". This is very important and a big part of what separates the throwers from the pitchers.

I am grateful to have found this forum and be able to have/read open discussion on what is happening NOW in the sport of softball pitching.

 

[lhowser]

the original post asked "What is IR" -

Definition: In pitching terms IR is a term used to describe a movement of the arm, especially the forearm and wrist evidenced in video of all high level softball pitchers. The purpose of IR is to create frustration in instructors who inspite of video evidence teach a method of pitching counterproductive to the IR movement and create an equal but different frustration with some pitching instructors who have always understand the movement and are mad that someone would try to explain pitching using a term commonly used in medical science to describe a movement of the human body.

Hopefully that helps.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

the original post asked "What is IR" -

Definition: In pitching terms IR is a term used to describe a movement of the arm, especially the forearm and wrist evidenced in video of all high level softball pitchers. The purpose of IR is to create frustration in instructors who inspite of video evidence teach a method of pitching counterproductive to the IR movement and create an equal but different frustration with some pitching instructors who have always understand the movement and are mad that someone would try to explain pitching using a term commonly used in medical science to describe a movement of the human body.

Hopefully that helps.

Thanks for giving us all a laugh before the long weekend!

On a more serious note, try this. Hold arm out in front of you, with the palm up to the sky and parallel to the ground. Now rotate the arm and hand so the palm is facing down to the ground. Now rotate palm facing back up again. Do this quickly several times and the hand will blur. According to BM, this is the fastest part of the body and good pitchers use this action for maximum effect. In its most pure sense, that is the visual definition of "Internal Rotation". If you are a pitcher and have mechanics that push the ball down the circle and finish with the elbow in the "strong man" arm or "L" position, this critical arm rotation (IR) is not being utilized.