Weight Transfer

[FiveFrameSwing]

Wellphyt. Talking to Don and other coaches I might tend to disagree with the no teach on girls. . The male knee works more as a hinge and the glutes fire the knee. With females the glutes do not fire the knees and the knee works more like a ball joint. However they can be taught how to do it correctly.
This is why Coach Candrea teaches every new Freshman how to throw. Teaching females how to feel correct weight shift is tougher. I willing to state that 90% of the girls we get in clinics to not know how to throw correctly. Why Don was using a box and Howard/hitter is now using a new 5" box for girls to feel weight shift.

SBF ... do you have any supporting documentation on the bold above?

 

[RayR]

FFS - all you gotta do is work with some girls - any idea how hard it is to get them to hinge the knee as opposed to spinning it? It is a daily battle...

 

[SBFAMILY]

Source: David Marshal, M.D .Medical Director, Sports Medicine Program Children's Healthcare of Atlanta

Source. Plus goggle it and I agree with MTS most coaches that works with females run into this problem. I always like to quote one other thing we buy a girl a $300 bat but won't show them how to use a $5.00 hammer. If you want a chuckle watch a girl try to drive a nail. They have to learn how to use the hammer to use a bat. They are both tools. Boys rarely have these issues.

Another source on differences.

Source: Physical Therapy Corner: Knee Injuries and the Female Athlete
Jump Training Techniques

 

[SBFAMILY]

More:
Glengary's Blog: Why are ACL Injuries More Common in Female Athletes?    | Active.com

Anatomic Differences
Females have wider hips than males, which increase the angle on the knee joint. The knee was designed as a hinge joint that is supposed to rock forward and back in the frontal plane. Females’ wider hips create an inward-directed inward angle on the knee, which causes it to roll side to side like a ball and socket joint. This increases stress on the ACL, especially during landing and cutting movements.

Females also have a narrower notch in the inside of the knee. The ACL travels through the middle of the knee joint through a notch called the intercondylar notch. Since it is narrower in females, the ACL may get pinched or frayed during cutting, increasing the risk of tear.

Muscle Imbalances
Hamstrings (muscles in the back of the thigh) are protective of the ACL and the quadriceps (muscles in the front of the thigh or quads) are antagonists of the ACL. In other words, during landing or cutting, if the hamstrings contract first, the tibia (shinbone) is stabilized and the ACL is “protected.” On the other hand, if the quadriceps contract first, before the hamstrings can stabilize the ACL, then the stress on the ACL is increased, leaving it at risk for a tear. In general, the quadriceps of females are stronger than their hamstrings, putting the ACL at an even higher risk. In males, the hamstrings are stronger, thus protecting the ACL.

Additionally, biomechanical research shows that the gluteus muscles, or external rotators of the hip, fire differently in males and females. In males, the hip muscles fire a split second before landing, thus stabilizing the hips, or core. With females, the glutes don’t fire before or after landing, so the hips rotate in, the knees buckle inward, and the ACL is stressed.



Landing Patterns
Sports typically involve some degree of running, jumping, landing, cutting, acceleration and/or deceleration. Females tend to perform these tasks with more of a straight leg than males. This straight leg landing pattern does not let the muscles of the thighs and calves absorb the shock, so the stress of landing is transferred to the ligaments of the joint, like the ACL.

 

[SBFAMILY]

This is why Howard has stated several times that girls are taught differently than boys, however they function differently as to balance, center of gravity, grip, laxity and carrying angle just to name a few. I got the privilege to watch and work with three very good hitting coaches teaching weight transfer a few weeks ago. Dave Petkau, Don Slaught and Howard Carrier. All were using a box to get girls to feel the difference.

 

[Wellphyt]

Wellphyt. Talking to Don and other coaches I might tend to disagree with the no teach on girls. . The male knee works more as a hinge and the glutes fire the knee. With females the glutes do not fire the knees and the knee works more like a ball joint. However they can be taught how to do it correctly.
This is why Coach Candrea teaches every new Freshman how to throw. Teaching females how to feel correct weight shift is tougher. I willing to state that 90% of the girls we get in clinics to not know how to throw correctly. Why Don was using a box and Howard/hitter is now using a new 5" box for girls to feel weight shift.

After checking with my wife (physical therapist) about the rear knee I see no reason to change my approach.

IMO, the issues I see with how females throw a ball and swing a bat have more to do with poor instruction than they do with anatomical differences in the female body. I've seen too many very athletic "Tom-Boy" types in my day to believe otherwise. In another thread a dad posted a pretty impressive looking picture of his 10 yo daughter pitching a baseball. He said the overhand throw always came natural to her. He also mentioned that she could throw a football further than a lot of boys. That's just one example.

When I compare the commonly taught throwing mechanics that I see being taught to girls; to Hodge's info on throwing; it's clear to me why girls have issues transferring weight when throwing overhand. I can't transfer weight correctly teaching what I see being taught.

I see the same thing with the weight shift in hitting. Williams said that the most important move of the hitter is the cocking of the hips. I don't see an emphasis in fastpitch instruction on cocking the hips. I don't think most even understand how pro hitters shift their weight. The youtube clips of Olympic fastpitch players explaining how to weight shift is not at all what Williams describes. A hitter that shifts their weight backward in a linear fashion will have a different swing than a hitter that shifts their weight back by cocking their hips. IMO girls are capable of weight shifting with their hips if they are given the information. Some do it naturally like most males do.

 

[Wellphyt]

More:
Glengary's Blog: Why are ACL Injuries More Common in Female Athletes?*** | Active.com

Anatomic Differences
Females have wider hips than males, which increase the angle on the knee joint. The knee was designed as a hinge joint that is supposed to rock forward and back in the frontal plane. Females’ wider hips create an inward-directed inward angle on the knee, which causes it to roll side to side like a ball and socket joint. This increases stress on the ACL, especially during landing and cutting movements.

Females also have a narrower notch in the inside of the knee. The ACL travels through the middle of the knee joint through a notch called the intercondylar notch. Since it is narrower in females, the ACL may get pinched or frayed during cutting, increasing the risk of tear.

Muscle Imbalances
Hamstrings (muscles in the back of the thigh) are protective of the ACL and the quadriceps (muscles in the front of the thigh or quads) are antagonists of the ACL. In other words, during landing or cutting, if the hamstrings contract first, the tibia (shinbone) is stabilized and the ACL is “protected.” On the other hand, if the quadriceps contract first, before the hamstrings can stabilize the ACL, then the stress on the ACL is increased, leaving it at risk for a tear. In general, the quadriceps of females are stronger than their hamstrings, putting the ACL at an even higher risk. In males, the hamstrings are stronger, thus protecting the ACL.

Additionally, biomechanical research shows that the gluteus muscles, or external rotators of the hip, fire differently in males and females. In males, the hip muscles fire a split second before landing, thus stabilizing the hips, or core. With females, the glutes don’t fire before or after landing, so the hips rotate in, the knees buckle inward, and the ACL is stressed.



Landing Patterns
Sports typically involve some degree of running, jumping, landing, cutting, acceleration and/or deceleration. Females tend to perform these tasks with more of a straight leg than males. This straight leg landing pattern does not let the muscles of the thighs and calves absorb the shock, so the stress of landing is transferred to the ligaments of the joint, like the ACL.

I've read this article before and the basis of the article is about preventing ACL injuries in female athletes. IMO, it is a giant leap to take this information and say that a female can't weight shift with their hips using a proper coil and uncoil sequence.

 

[Wellphyt]

For the sake of argment let's assume that the female knee works more like a ball joint than a hinge. How does that in any way factor into a female shifting her weight with her hips? In a good weight shift the back foot gets pulled off the ground or becomes unweighted. As Ted said "that's hard not to do". If the back foot becomes unweighted as the hips unwind, does it really matter if the knee is more like a hinge or a ball joint?

Of course if one is teaching a linear weight shift coupled with the Elvis move then all bets are off.

 

[RayR]

I have more issues trying to correct the "negative move" which is really just a hip slide back towards the catcher. Slide back / slide forward...

A hitter that shifts their weight backward in a linear fashion will have a different swing than a hitter that shifts their weight back by cocking their hips. IMO girls are capable of weight shifting with their hips if they are given the information. Some do it naturally like most males do.

After checking with my wife (physical therapist) about the rear knee I see no reason to change my approach.

IMO, the issues I see with how females throw a ball and swing a bat have more to do with poor instruction than they do with anatomical differences in the female body. I've seen too many very athletic "Tom-Boy" types in my day to believe otherwise. In another thread a dad posted a pretty impressive looking picture of his 10 yo daughter pitching a baseball. He said the overhand throw always came natural to her. He also mentioned that she could throw a football further than a lot of boys. That's just one example.

When I compare the commonly taught throwing mechanics that I see being taught to girls; to Hodge's info on throwing; it's clear to me why girls have issues transferring weight when throwing overhand. I can't transfer weight correctly teaching what I see being taught.

I see the same thing with the weight shift in hitting. Williams said that the most important move of the hitter is the cocking of the hips. I don't see an emphasis in fastpitch instruction on cocking the hips. I don't think most even understand how pro hitters shift their weight. The youtube clips of Olympic fastpitch players explaining how to weight shift is not at all what Williams describes. A hitter that shifts their weight backward in a linear fashion will have a different swing than a hitter that shifts their weight back by cocking their hips. IMO girls are capable of weight shifting with their hips if they are given the information. Some do it naturally like most males do.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

FFS - all you gotta do is work with some girls - any idea how hard it is to get them to hinge the knee as opposed to spinning it? It is a daily battle...

MTS ... I do work with girls.

Explain to me why the glutes fire the knee for a male and not for a female.

Keep in mind that I don't think in terms of firing the knee even for males. So what is this "firing of the knee" and why can the glutes by used for men and not women?