The Kelly Barnhill Thread

[riseball]

this is the thread that will never die. it has taken on the epic proportions of a political argument that cannot be "won" by either side.

Unless i'm mistaken, it sounds like the riseball school of thought believes that getting away with repeated rule violations is cheating.
On the other hand, the DmystifieD school disagrees in that if a violation is not called, it's not a violation.

obbay's analogy- If a batter has no part of their body in the strike zone, is hit with a pitch and the umpire calls it a strike. RB would say the pitcher did not throw a strike where DmD would say she did.

intent also seems to be an issue where some say cheating only exists with intent. Barnhill either knows she's cheating or she doesn't.
I learned in Poli Sci 101 that ignorance of the law (or in this case rule) is not a valid excuse. (this referring to the player being ignorant of the violation)

I believe that any pitcher and her family, coaches and team would never change anything as long as the pitcher is riding on a wave of great success, even if it was brought about by umpires failure or political/marketing reasons.

Changing the rule in response to allowing a player to be exempt from that rule doesn't sound like evolution of the game, it sounds like CYA from past failures.

In strictest sense I would have to disagree "that getting away with repeated rule violations is cheating"

Cheat is defined as follows:

Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.

Using that definition it appears that repeated rule violations are not required. As to the question of intent I would agree that it may not required. That said, Criminal Science 101 taught us that intent is certainly an aggravating factor. By adding the criteria of intent it actually raises the bar for calling someone a cheat. In the case of Barnhill using any definition how would you not consider her a cheat? If she were to somehow be held accountable to follow the rules, is there anyone on the board who truly believes she would at a minimum be rendered less effective in the circle? So I ask why is she not worthy to be described as a cheat? Of course other than the fact she is an amateur athlete.

I must however respectfully disagree with the following:

I believe that any pitcher and her family, coaches and team would never change anything as long as the pitcher is riding on a wave of great success, even if it was brought about by umpires failure or political/marketing reasons.

While that may fit Barnhill, her parents, Walton, Rocha, and the Gator Softball Team it is certainly not a universal truth. Until the last person with a modicum of honor and integrity is driven from the game, that will never be a true statement. Speaking as a coach, regardless of the situation you will either pitch legally or you will not pitch for me.

 

[riseball]

yes, you already replied yesterday but you forgot that you already replied and re-replied again but topped your latest reply with all the profanity. thank you for your reply, once again.

Don't take offense [MENTION=9657]FastPitchCat[/MENTION] he might have been all fired up from cruising the ball parks with the dad clan laying down justice to wayward parents.

 

[DmystifieD]

yes, you already replied yesterday but you forgot that you already replied and re-replied again but topped your latest reply with all the profanity. thank you for your reply, once again.

You IMPLIED I didnt reply, to which I was sure I did. So as a grown man, I swiftly replied to give you info i wasnt hiding. I didnt take the time it takes to go LOOK to see my original reply until after I got home. You sure took the time to advise everyone YOU DIDNT GET A REPLY BS> Oh I didnt forget I replied FPC, I re-replied to point out how UNSKIILED you are when it comes to searching this site, let alone google, that YOU could't even find the reply to your original question, which was right below your question... RIGHT BELOW. Childish games you play. speaks volumes. Keep thanking riseball and asking me questions. Internet is there for everyone to see.

 

[DmystifieD]

Don't take offense [MENTION=9657]FastPitchCat[/MENTION] he might have been all fired up from cruising the ball parks with the dad clan laying down justice to wayward parents.

This is trolling.... you attack me. you lose riseball.

 

[DmystifieD]

In strictest sense I would have to disagree "that getting away with repeated rule violations is cheating"

Cheat is defined as follows:

Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.

Using that definition it appears that repeated rule violations are not required. As to the question of intent I would agree that it may not required. That said, Criminal Science 101 taught us that intent is certainly an aggravating factor. By adding the criteria of intent it actually raises the bar for calling someone a cheat. In the case of Barnhill using any definition how would you not consider her a cheat? If she were to somehow be held accountable to follow the rules, is there anyone on the board who truly believes she would at a minimum be rendered less effective in the circle? So I ask why is she not worthy to be described as a cheat? Of course other than the fact she is an amateur athlete.

I must however respectfully disagree with the following:

I believe that any pitcher and her family, coaches and team would never change anything as long as the pitcher is riding on a wave of great success, even if it was brought about by umpires failure or political/marketing reasons.

While that may fit Barnhill, her parents, Walton, Rocha, and the Gator Softball Team it is certainly not a universal truth. Until the last person with a modicum of honor and integrity is driven from the game, that will never be a true statement. Speaking as a coach, regardless of the situation you will either pitch legally or you will not pitch for me.

I disagree this that this is an argument, let alone an argument that that cant be won or lost. disagree 100%. I asked the pitchers daddy to STOP calling amateurs cheats as girls have been doing this a long time, been taught a long time AND see the BEST in the world on TV doing it for YEARS, therefore several are emulating the best in the country. Nothing more, nothing less. I already won for just saying it. that really ended the discussion, BUT NO.

This is my final comment, done with being trolled for the benefit of bashing an amateur.

I come on here after 1.25 years of this thread listening to the daddy of a peer of ms barnhill whine and try to prove to all she is what he calls, a cheat. See post 2! and on and on and on and on.

I VOLUNTEER information in order to help my case to get this guy to shut the he!! up at his targeted attacks on an amateur. I reminded that these girls are simply doing what their peers are doing, and IT HASN'T BEEN CALLED IN YEARS. Ignorance of how the game is called is NOT reason to call amateurs cheats, in my opinion. Softball did not start 2 years ago.

I don't make the sh!t on the internet up. You build your own credentials or lack thereof over a lifetime. You dont get to come on the internet and spin yourself into an elite coach. Not gonna happen in softball, too many people know who matters. If the shoe fits!

I leave you with someone else's words who just didnt come on the scene 2 years ago in THIS absurd trail of attacking. One guy, NOT ME. You get to figure out who it is. It was said well over a year ago, YET, the Bull Sh!t from daddy continues.

"She really isn't unorthodox. She is pitching with the "not close to 6 foot but want to hit 70" set of mechanics. She and Carda are twins. Lots of college pitchers pitch with this type of mechanics set. "

What PART of LOTS OF PITCHERS pitch with this type of mechanics set do you still struggle with? been around a long time, newbie. I am done. Quit attacking girls

 

[FastPitchCat]

You IMPLIED I didnt reply, to which I was sure I did. So as a grown man, I swiftly replied to give you info i wasnt hiding. I didnt take the time it takes to go LOOK to see my original reply until after I got home. You sure took the time to advise everyone YOU DIDNT GET A REPLY BS> Oh I didnt forget I replied FPC, I re-replied to point out how UNSKIILED you are when it comes to searching this site, let alone google, that YOU could't even find the reply to your original question, which was right below your question... RIGHT BELOW. Childish games you play. speaks volumes. Keep thanking riseball and asking me questions. Internet is there for everyone to see.

Gee D,

with my limited querying skills.all i wanted was a more direct query to type into google to find out about this technique.
but since you are not willing to directly provide that to respect the pitchers involved and i respect that, no problem.

thanks for your replies.

 

[DmystifieD]

Gee D,

with my limited querying skills.all i wanted was a more direct query to type into google to find out about this technique.
but since you are not willing to directly provide that to respect the pitchers involved and i respect that, no problem.

thanks for your replies.

You don't get to tell someone "I didnt reply" and then in your next reply tell me "You forgot you replied", then tell someone, "sorry, all I wanted was the answer".

That is trolling or just complete ignorance in how to communicate with someone when YOU need an answer. I'm done with you too.

 

[schwabach]

The real problem here is with the enforcement of rules. Absent enforcement, you will have pitchers who employ illegal pitching methods. Should each coach and pitcher display the self-policing behavior seen in golf? Of course, but golf seems to be unusual in that competitors are expected to report their own errors. So, absent NCAA enforcement, nothing will happen.

And it only needs to be enforced at the NCAA level. If it is enforce there, it will trickle down to lower levels.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

And it only needs to be enforced at the NCAA level. If it is enforce there, it will trickle down to lower levels.

But they haven't done that. They are not doing that. From the meeting notes they are not moving in that direction. They are actually moving in the direction of lessening the penalty on an illegal pitch.

In five years from now when you are still shouting, "enforce the rules!" a class of girls will be finishing their careers in a sport where this rule was never enforced consistently at any level.

The response is to attack the amateur players character? I just don't' get it.

 

[Easton33]

I disagree this that this is an argument, let alone an argument that that cant be won or lost. disagree 100%. I asked the pitchers daddy to STOP calling amateurs cheats as girls have been doing this a long time, been taught a long time AND see the BEST in the world on TV doing it for YEARS, therefore several are emulating the best in the country. Nothing more, nothing less. I already won for just saying it. that really ended the discussion, BUT NO.

This is my final comment, done with being trolled for the benefit of bashing an amateur.

I come on here after 1.25 years of this thread listening to the daddy of a peer of ms barnhill whine and try to prove to all she is what he calls, a cheat. See post 2! and on and on and on and on.

I VOLUNTEER information in order to help my case to get this guy to shut the he!! up at his targeted attacks on an amateur. I reminded that these girls are simply doing what their peers are doing, and IT HASN'T BEEN CALLED IN YEARS. Ignorance of how the game is called is NOT reason to call amateurs cheats, in my opinion. Softball did not start 2 years ago.

I don't make the sh!t on the internet up. You build your own credentials or lack thereof over a lifetime. You dont get to come on the internet and spin yourself into an elite coach. Not gonna happen in softball, too many people know who matters. If the shoe fits!

I leave you with someone else's words who just didnt come on the scene 2 years ago in THIS absurd trail of attacking. One guy, NOT ME. You get to figure out who it is. It was said well over a year ago, YET, the Bull Sh!t from daddy continues.

"She really isn't unorthodox. She is pitching with the "not close to 6 foot but want to hit 70" set of mechanics. She and Carda are twins. Lots of college pitchers pitch with this type of mechanics set. "

What PART of LOTS OF PITCHERS pitch with this type of mechanics set do you still struggle with? been around a long time, newbie. I am done. Quit attacking girls

You just don't get it I think. If everyone watches and agrees she is illegal and then you make the argument that not only does she do it but lots of others pitchers do it, the best pitchers do it, there are people training these girls to do it then you have a whole bunch of people that know it is illegal and are conspiring to be illegal. How is that not cheating? I am better with the amateur that just has bad mechanics and no one calls it not being a cheater but when you list all of this, it is a concerted effort to cheat. To specifically target a rule and break it because no one will call it is in fact cheating. When she demonstrates how to pitch and she shows how to do it legal, then she breaks the rules and pitches illegal, it cant be anything but a willfull breaking of the rules.....CHEATING. Would she be dominant if she pitched Legal? Not as dominate for sure. The line where you quoted someone saying that the girls that want to hit 70 pitch this way proves that. You have no legs to stand on and your argument pretty much proves she is cheating knowingly