The Kelly Barnhill Thread

[riseball]

IME skippy defenders only see what they want to see and will endlessly rationalize the behavior in an attempt to justify its existence. It is the same type enabling that created Barnhill, Silkwood, Nevins, etc. Some people like myself see the rules as the foundation of the game, while others see it as a guideline that should change with the wind with zero regard for the unintended consequences. If in their infinite wisdom a rule does not make sense to them, then it is a bad rule and needs to be changed. Instead of making kids learn to pitch within the constraints of the game, they prefer to take to take the easy way out and simply change the rules. It is this same dumbing down of competition that gave rise to participation trophies. You bring things down to the lowest common denominator until every one can participate, and everyone is successful. The bottom line is that the rules are the rules and they are not going to change anytime soon. Subsequently the can and should be enforced, regardless of the many excuses offered. All it takes is some courage and effort and this issue would go away in a couple of week. Any kid can pitch legally and once the rules are enforced they will have no problem doing so. Unfortunately until that happens there will always be those in the game that will do everything they can to take the easy way out and not put in the work to achieve legitimate success.

 

[Rocketech1]

Every year the rules of softball are being refined and updated as they are being reevaluated for their effectiveness and for the good of the game (a few examples: the high strike zone was lowered, the pitching plate was moved back to 43 feet for 14u, pitchers can leap if there is a hole in front of home plate, and one I saw yesterday at a college game, ball awarded the batter for a delay by the pitcher to pitch the next pitch, etc).

All I'm asking is if the governing bodies don't want to enforce a pitching rule then maybe it needs to reevaluated as whether or not it should be a requirement. This is a sport, not criminal law. If a rule is not good for the game, to make the game more accessible to young girls wanting to pitch in a softball game, then maybe tweeks to the pitching regulations will make it a better game. At one point, step style pitching was the rule, over time leap and drag became the norm. Maybe it's time for another change?

 

[riseball]

Just never saw the value in apples to oranges comparisons. Not one of the examples you mentioned was made because the existing rule was being ignored. Most were made to balance the hitter/pitcher effectiveness. What other rules do you advocate mucking around with to retain the existing hitter/pitcher balance? Maybe play with the strike zone? Change the number of ball or strikes per hitter? Maybe we should go to a 1-1 count to make the game go faster?

Not a single one of the examples you mention were made to dumb down the game to provide those with lesser skills ability to compete. If you are going to fundamentally change the game there has to be a compelling reason. The rule is in place to differentiate it from the mens game and for many years it served the game well. That is until the enablers arrived and refused to hold players, coaches, and officials accountable. The problem is not the rule, it is the people involved who just want to take the easy way out.

 

[Rocketech1]

Not a single one of the examples you mention were made to dumb down the game to provide those with lesser skills ability to compete. If you are going to fundamentally change the game there has to be a compelling reason. The rule is in place to differentiate it from the mens game and for many years it served the game well. That is until the enablers arrived and refused to hold players, coaches, and officials accountable. The problem is not the rule, it is the people involved who just want to take the easy way out.

One of my examples was a fundamental change to the game; the high strike was lowered from arm pits to below the sternum. The strike zone is a fundamental aspect of the game that was changed. Another example of dumbing down the game for the poor batters that couldn't hit the rise ball? Maybe someone was trying to make the game more offensive?

I'm done discussing this but hopefully this interesting discussion made some guests and members at DFP contemplate whether all of these pitchers are illegal and cheaters or if there needs to be more evaluation of the pitching regulations and enforcement thereof. As the great BM would say, carry on....

 

[29dad]

Hope it is okay to ask this here, but can someone help me understand why the penalty for illegal pitch is so punitive? A balk in baseball is an attempt to deceive the runner. I get that the runner should advance a base, because the foul was against the runner. But there are no leadoffs in fastpitch. no deceiving runners. Why do the base runners get to advance a base for an illegal pitch?? I really want to know the rationale for this as it does not make sense to me. Thanks

 

[knightsb]

Edit: Looks like Santa is a Gators fan

 

[riseball]

Sure looks to me like she is clearly illegal both in terms of a leap, and then a replant with push. As some have said she is essentially starting her pitch at 40 feet. I suspect that many a pitcher can dominate from that distance.

 

[corlay]

Sure looks to me like she is clearly illegal both in terms of a leap, and then a replant with push. As some have said she is essentially starting her pitch at 40 feet. I suspect that many a pitcher can dominate from that distance.

jeeze... I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

Looks to me that push foot toe maintains contact with the ground - ever so slightly.

So I think she passes the "leap" test (on this pitch) - even in slo mo.

the second "push" is *very subtle* on this pitch.
I do see a "second impulse" in the leg, and it *does* occur just an instant before her stride foot plants,
so yes, technically a "crow hop".

But I will say again - this is never going to get called for an IP in a game. in Gainsville, or elsewhere.
tough to see this in real-time - unless that is all you are fixated on and looking for, which is just not feasible.

 

[riseball]

jeeze... I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

Looks to me that push foot toe maintains contact with the ground - ever so slightly.

So I think she passes the "leap" test (on this pitch) - even in slo mo.

the second "push" is *very subtle* on this pitch.
I do see a "second impulse" in the leg, and it *does* occur just an instant before her stride foot plants,
so yes, technically a "crow hop".

But I will say again - this is never going to get called for an IP in a game. in Gainsville, or elsewhere.

We must be looking at different views. FWIW - Jake smoothed the area in front of the pitchers plate every inning. She could clearly see her drag marks, and could also clearly see Barnhills starting well in front of the pitchers plate.

Is there truly anyone on the planet that can state in all seriousness that Barnhill is legal on every pitch? If so I got one hell of deal on bridge. The reality is that umpires see this every game. They than make the conscious choice not to enforce the rule. So much for safeguarding the integrity of the game.

 

[Rocketech1]

As some have said she is essentially starting her pitch at 40 feet. I suspect that many a pitcher can dominate from that distance.

What you are essentially saying is that if Barnhill doesn't replant she would only stride 5 feet from the pitching plate and every other pitcher is pitching from that distance too!? From all of the SEC and PAC12 games I watch, almost every pitcher gets to within 1 foot of the front of the circle and many get to the front (8 feet). At best and arguably, Barnhill is getting an extra 6 inches to maybe 1 foot of distance closer to home then she would have otherwise if she didn't "replant". And that's up to debate. Over a 35 foot pitching distance, I don't see such a dramatic advantage. What separates her from the other good but not elite pitchers, as Java illustrated earlier, is her excellent spin rate, ability to pitch her rise ball on three different planes, her speed high-60's, and her ability to hit her spots at will. Her lower body has very little to do with her .26 ERA, opponents batting average of .117, 9/1 strikeout to walk ratio, and 13-0 record. Maybe it's possible this kid can just flat out pitch????

She is one hell of a pitcher and will be for the next several years. Ok, now I am out....