Teaching Hitting and the HIP COIL

[FiveFrameSwing]

Please stop distorting the truth. I've been around Howard a long time now and I've never heard him even one time say to "vertically stack" the forearm. That is all you. You've been told this time and time again, but still like to bring it up and post pictures taken out of context.

No distortion whatsoever. In the video that was posted here Howard held his rear forearm in a near perfect vertical orientation, and with his left hand ran it up and down his vertically stacked rear forearm while stating that "this is stacked". SL then followed up with a series of examples of how he was having he daughter swing though that position with slow motion videos.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Chris
Is this what you mean when you talk about stacked as Howard meant it? Do you have any pictures of your daughter to match up to Casey and Bonds....

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SL

This photo of Bonds is not the vertical orientation that Howard and you demonstrated ... it is more the "power-vee" that I've spoken of before.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Here is Jess hitting an inside pitch down the first base line. The camera angle is from behind and isn't a straight on side shot, sorry. Clearly you can see, however, that the forearm is not vertically stacked. This hit went for a triple.

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Edit: Oh, and we won the regional semi. Jess went 2-3 with a triple and a single. On to the regional finals this Saturday.

Bold above ... thank you ... exactly my point.

 

[Greenmonsters]

The reality of the situation is that there is very little disagreement over WHAT constitutes a poor swing, a good swing, and a great swing. The Model swing thread identifies the common elements. Once those elements are identified, the Holy Grail that people like myself w/ a DD are really seeking is HOW to teach and achieve that high level swing. IMO, Howard separated himself from the many knowledgeable contributors who frequent this site through his ability and willingness to not only explain, but SHOW HOW he taught hitters while using simple terms and cues that the average crazy daddy could comprehend. The more ways that I know how to teach something increases the chances that one of those methods will be effective and strike paydirt w/ the hitter I'm trying to help.

 

[cshilt]

No distortion whatsoever. In the video that was posted here Howard held his rear forearm in a near perfect vertical orientation, and with his left hand ran it up and down his vertically stacked rear forearm while stating that "this is stacked". SL then followed up with a series of examples of how he was having he daughter swing though that position with slow motion videos.

Yes you are distorting it. Was Howard in a batting stance or standing straight up?

Also, we have told you over and again how Howard teaches it. We have consistently refuted what you say, yet you insist we don't know what Howard has told us personally.

 

[Bouldersdad]

This photo of Bonds is not the vertical orientation that Howard and you demonstrated ... it is more the "power-vee" that I've spoken of before.

Semantics Semantics Semantics. The Hand is above the elbow and the back elbow will come thru the slot or pass by the body before the hand will. If not we create a cast. Stacked. Power V, They are Key words to help a hitter understand the mechanics of the move. If the hand is not very close to being directly above the elbow ( or stacked ) the back hand will enter the slot first. The stack creates the power V. Again common sense dictates by the picture what is happening. It cracks me up that something so simple can be made so difficult.

Tim

 

[SBFAMILY]

Ken''s post" MLB hitting coaches state your credentials here
As I said in my email, the only people who will be allowed to talk about what MLB hitters do as if it is fact are those who are either currently MLB hitting coaches, or who have been within the last five years. Not someone who coached a kid who made it into professional baseball, but an actual coach who is on the payroll of MLB teams. All others must qualify their posts with statements such as "I think" or "What I see" or "In my opinion." Violators will have their posts removed regardless of the quality of the content.

So if you are an actual MLB hitting coach and want the exception made for you, please state your real name, pseudonym if you're using one here, and the MLB team on whose payroll you are as a reply to this thread. Minor league coaches do not count.

All others, quit pretending. Just 'cause you watch This Old House on TV doesn't make you a master carpenter"

Few have responded with what makes them an expert.

 

[straightleg]

SB

If the MLB hitting coach thread was Master Carpenter thread, I could post in it.




SL

 

[Wellphyt]

Some of us believe the best way to determine if a player has a high level swing is to compare the player's swing to a player who is considered to have a high level swing. In the case of Howard's fans, it's only logical to use Bustos as the model swing, because they all claim to teach her swing. They actually call it a CB/Howard Carrier swing.

I turned on ESPN as SL suggested and recorded one of the players taught by Howard. I compared her swing to Bustos. IMO the two swings are very different. As it relates to this thread, Bustos has a really nice hip coil that is performed during her stride and maintained into toe touch. During the transition, Bustos uses her butt muscles while maintaining pressure against the ground with her back foot. The result is a very nice weight shift. I didn't see any of these actions in the other player. The difference shows up most noticeably in their weight shifts. The difference between Bustos' weight shift and the other player's weight shift is striking. There is a clip floating around on here of my DD demonstrating the hip coil. IMO my DD's hip action in that clip is a better match to Bustos' hip action than the hip action of the player I recorded.

The difference also shows up else where in the swing, because if you don't get good hip action, the hips don't clear properly; resulting in a gate type, upper body, arm driven swing.

There is a reason why Williams said the hip cock/coil is the most important move of the hitter. It's because the hip coil is the first absolute that a hitter performs. In hitting terms, it's the start of the swing. Some people see this first movement as the stride, while others see it as the hitter shifting some weight onto the back foot when they lift the front foot to stride. Both of those actions can occur, but they occur differently between players. Some players take a big stride, some a small stride. Some players have a noticeable backward sway, while others have very little. Some have a high leg kick, while others barely lift the front foot off the ground.

The absolute that gets missed within all those different styles, is the hip coil. Everyone sees the high leg kick and long stride, but they don't see the hip coil. They see the wide stance and no stride, but fail to see the hip coil. The hip coil often times gets missed because most of us just see the player's style. The absolutes of the swing are often times so subtle that they get missed.

A lot of the disagreement on here comes down to the difference between style and technique. Epstein has always said that you can't teach hitting properly if you don't understand the difference between style and technique. I agree with him 100%.

The reason why Williams' material is so good, is because he is one of the few players who understood the difference between style and technique. Williams actually knew what he did when he swung, and he knew which movements needed to be taught, and which should be left up to the hitter.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Semantics Semantics Semantics. The Hand is above the elbow and the back elbow will come thru the slot or pass by the body before the hand will. If not we create a cast. Stacked. Power V, They are Key words to help a hitter understand the mechanics of the move. If the hand is not very close to being directly above the elbow ( or stacked ) the back hand will enter the slot first. The stack creates the power V. Again common sense dictates by the picture what is happening. It cracks me up that something so simple can be made so difficult.

Tim

Not semantics at all. What we see in the Bond's photo is a solid orientation for a swing to pass through. An attempt to instead have a near perfect vertical forearm in that position hurts the swing in multiple ways. It's not a minor thing.