"Shove the Glove" to counter the distraction force

[halskinner]

FR,

I am also one that always wants to know the pitcher's height and stride length when there is a question in the overall motions.

The single main issue there is the exact po int in the arm circle when you have landing foot touchdown. The ball must be just into the downswing at LFT. If the ball is too early or too late it is definitely felt in the shoulder and it doesnt feel good or right. If the timing is off there, the timing is off EVERYWHERE else in the motions.

Stride length. The Steadman - Hawkins report say stride length of 80% to 100% of a pitchers height. !00% is a strong aggressive stride length for a leap and drag pitcher. That is what I started all my students at, just a few inches under 100% and they all did great.

Now, if you stretch the stride past 100%, here is what is going to happen; The pitcher will either hesitate when starting her arm circle, slow down the arm circle. Either will cause loss of ball speed. Believe it or not and contrary to what logic would seem to dictate, a longer stride does not take longer to make the stride, TO A POINT at least. If the stride is too short at first and then lengthened to the correct length it will be a faster stride and the arm circle will be faster and more aggressive. This results in smoother motions and faster ball speed.

Stride height. You asked about a pitcher jumping out and as high as they could. Why would a pitcher want to jump out high? Is the batter hanging over their head? No. The batter is straight ahead of them, you want all your force and energy going in that direction.

Heres another fact that will affect speed and accuracy. The higher the stride foot comes off the ground the farther it must come down and the harder and more jarring the landing will be. Keep the stride foot low and keep the motions smoother.

When the motions are smooth, it is easier to throw. When its easier to throw, its easier to throw harder.

 

[FrozenRope]

Hal, Essentially, you're confirming my thoughts. I'm not saynig I would want a pitcher to jump UP and out. It doesn't make sense to me. But some of what I read on here, about extending the stride beyond what is comfortable (assuming she's already driving off the rubber) can lead to just that, a girl whose trying to long jump instead of pitch. If someone tells you to leap further, or step further out, nature dictates they change the angle to get out farther, increasing the "hang time". Not ideal in my book. This was a general question intended specifically for Ken, since I think he offers a lot of good suggestions, just not sure I buy into the theory that farther is better with regard to the stride distance. In my opinion, a strong and aggresive forward motion, with the proper timing to promote a good strong front side (negative resitance) and a fast arm circle is the right answer. Making a suggestion to increase/decrease stride without "seeing" is merely blind logic to me.

 

[halskinner]

If the pitcher is a leap and drag pitcher, my rec ommending a stride length, based solely on the pitcher's height, is not a blind guess. It comes from experience with hundreds of students and how they did and performed using my method.

A whole lot more than that used the exact same method from my book and were very successful.


If the stride is too short,. it will be taken slowly so as to not walk through the pitch and have no resistance. To stay in 'sync;, everyuthing has to slow down.

A stride too long, same thing, everything gets slowed down to try and stay in sync. No consistency there at all. Every pitch is a struggle for some consistency. That might be the MOST FRUSTRATING feeling there is for a new pitcher.

At any rate, there are instructors that teach striding out with the foot fairly high. I am not one of them for the reasons I have already stated.

Here is a statement from a successful pitcher's Dad;

January 10th, 2011

Dear Coach Hal,

I started working on pitching with my Daughter Ashley when she was 9 years old. After reading your book when Ashley was 11 she went from throwing the ball 44 mph to 53 in just 6 months. Ashley is now a 15-year-old sophomore in high school and has been recently clocked at 67 mph.

She is a consistent 60 - 65 MPH. Not only did the mechanical drills in your book assist Ashley in her development of strength and speed, the mental toughness advice made her the dominating pitcher she is today. With your book I have been able to successfully instruct Ashley to pitch at a top level. "She had me and I had your book for instruction". She was started off with your 'Foundation Method', we have continued using that method all along and still use it today.


Ashley is one of the Top Recruited High School pitchers in the Nation.
Schools that have expressed interest in Ashley and / or actively recruited her: Oregon State, Boise State, Oregon, Washington, Tennessee, Stanford, Florida State, University of Alabama at Birmingham and many, many others. All the schools interested in her have DI softball programs. Ashley recently has accepted an offer from the University of Washington.


The 'Foundation Method' is what we stuck to. I truly believe this is why she throws so hard today. There are not many 60+ pitchers out there these days. Too many pitchers are continually changing their foundations or have weak / bad foundations. I strongly believe this is why we have so many pitchers topping out at 55 mph.
Thank you for all the help.
Sincerely,

Ron T. - Proud Pitcher's Dad
Assistant Coach - Washington Explosion 18U
Connell, WA."

Here is the Yahoo sports article on her

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highs...thrown-six-straight-no-hitters-151113007.html

 

[Ken B]

FrozenRope,

In my opinion, a strong and aggresive forward motion, with the proper timing to promote a good strong front side (negative resitance) and a fast arm circle is the right answer.

That’s very close to my thinking, although I would say that timing benefits from a strong front side rather than promoting it. I also think you’re right that farther isn’t automatically better.

I try to follow a systems approach with pitching. The goal is the end result, which is maximizing the potential by building and sequencing the subsystems. Stride distance shouldn’t be the goal as I seemed to imply earlier in this thread.

I think it’s safe to say that 95% of speed comes from a good whip. However, I think a well-timed, strong drive helps make the whip more efficient. A strong drive usually equates to a long stride. There is no magic equation that tells us the perfect stride distance, but when watching a kid throw, one can look to see if all the parts are contributing to their potential. If they lack power in the drive, that’s something that can be improved.

Learning about, and explaining this stuff on the internet can be rough. There’s so much info—both good and bad. Even the good info can be bad, if not clearly explained or applied. The same with my advice—I worry that something I’ve typed is inadequate without being there in person to help facilitate or explain it.

In the future, I’ll try to be clearer that a goal is a strong and aggressive stride, rather than a distance. It makes more sense.


Thanks,
Ken

 

[Ken B]

Hal,
I still say a good glove shove will add distance to the stride.

Ken

 

[halskinner]

Hal,
I still say a good glove shove will add distance to the stride.

Ken

OK I have thunked about this and how to explain my feelings on the subject. I still think that the simple act of shoving the glove forward, in itself, does not increase stride length.

However, the other factors that ARE affected by a glove shove are vthese;

1. It causes / promotes a quick opening of the shoulder. The faster the glove is shoved, the faster the hips open, and I li ke that in a pitcher. Obviously where the shoulders go, the hips will follow. So, it promotes opening of the hips when a young beginner is struggling with it. It is a cure for that in almost every case.

2. The glove shove also keeps the pitcher balanced and on the powerline.

I dont think that shoving the glove extends the stride length when it comes to those two attributes.

However, if the glove shove is far enough and fast enough this happens;

3. That strong forward glove shove will pull the pitcher forward quickly and help get the body on the forward lean you must have for a strong / er push off the vrubber. This attribute MOST DEFINITELY will allow for a stronger more aggressive stride length and more aggressive ball speed.


That is my opinion on that. Now I will give you all a little training secret I have had for years and never talked about.

To teach my new students, didnt matter what age, to get their bodies on a good forward lean BEFORE they pushed off from the rubber, here is what I would do.

I would have them practice the glove shove several times. They would NEVER do it far enough or fast enough. So I would help them in that respect. I would have them go through their pitching motion with a wiffle ball, just to have something in their throwing hand. I would stand just in front and to the glove side.They would go through their motion, stride included.

Here is the kicker. I would hold onto their glove at the point of their wrist with a firm grip. I would move my hand along with theier glove a few times. Then, when they were extended with the glove, I gently but firmly pulled it / them another 6 inches or so. Doing that was just enough to cause them to lean forward and lose their balance, taking a baby step forward. I would then say "THAT is how far and how fast you need to shove that glove, so it helps pull your body forward of the rubber before you push off".

4 or 5 more times like that and they got it! My students were known by btheir speed and aggressiveness, even the very youngest ones.

Did the glove shove cause the pitcher to establish stronger more aggressive motions? You better believe it! Did that also result in a longer stride and more ball speed. Yes and it vwill do alot more too! It an instructors 'Fix All' if you know how to use it.

It's all in the way they are trained my friend.

So, Ken, I still say the glove shove doesnt cause a longer stride. But the other things that happen BECAUISE of the glove shove do.

Am I pickin nits here??????

I hope you find it useful.

 

[X pitcher]

BH, You posted the same post twice, too besides the other thing you took from Hal. Shame on you, you get a slap on the back, a blister on your middle finger, and you get your birthday taken away next year.

 

[X pitcher]

Shove the glove? Is this used for both the hide the ball and the back arm swing? BH teaches ball in glove and Hal teaches 3 wind ups.

 

[halskinner]

Shove the glove? Is this used for both the hide the ball and the back arm swing? BH teaches ball in glove and Hal teaches 3 wind ups.

Forgive him father for he knows not of what he says.

Additional; Figure it out yourself or go watch some games and figure it out yourself. Oh yeah, did I forget to say figure it out yourself?

I am very proud to say that I NEVER had a student report any injuries from pitching. Not all instructors can honestly say that.

Now X pitcher, have a good life and dont forget to take your meds.

 

[Perfect Circle]

Hal, Essentially, you're confirming my thoughts. I'm not saynig I would want a pitcher to jump UP and out. It doesn't make sense to me. But some of what I read on here, about extending the stride beyond what is comfortable (assuming she's already driving off the rubber) can lead to just that, a girl whose trying to long jump instead of pitch. If someone tells you to leap further, or step further out, nature dictates they change the angle to get out farther, increasing the "hang time". Not ideal in my book. This was a general question intended specifically for Ken, since I think he offers a lot of good suggestions, just not sure I buy into the theory that farther is better with regard to the stride distance. In my opinion, a strong and aggresive forward motion, with the proper timing to promote a good strong front side (negative resitance) and a fast arm circle is the right answer. Making a suggestion to increase/decrease stride without "seeing" is merely blind logic to me.

There all coil-less like I told you back some time ago... Symmetry like I said... looks like your coming to the crossroads... though. Ever find the chair? We had a whole town garage sale... I would have got you one if I would have seen one... goday