Should pitching instructors only be pitchers?

[Mark H]

OK. Here is another one for this discussion;

You are about to go into battle. Who would you rather have leading your unit?:

1. A sarge that did three tours of duty in Viet Nam and has numerous medals for valor and bravery?

2. A Lieutenant, fresh out of the academy with no experience on the battlefield?


HHHMMMMMMMM

One knows what to have you do to defeat the enemy and survive to another day.

The other has taken lessons in class and is really good at staying behind and radioing in for evac choppers and body bags.

OK. You want to learn to shoot a rifle really well so you don't die in battle. Do you want the guy who knows the most in the world about learning to shoot a rifle well or do you want the sergeant who brought his platoon back with no holes in them, shoots really well but doesn't really know how he does it.

All these analogies strain to present a position based on whose ox is gored. I'd be interested in getting both Ernie and Hal and so on to work with my kid.

It's like hitting. In pitching there is learning to throw well underhand including speed, spin and command. Then there is learning to use that to get hitters out. For the first, I think non pitchers are fine. For the second, I think pitchers would have the advantage.

In hitting, there is swing training and then there is learning to use that skill to defeat the pitcher. Same again.

 

[halskinner]

Mark. There is an instructor in my general area that has been doing that for many years. He was a good C level pitcher and also competed in some B ball tournaments.

He teaches what he knows mechanically pretty well, in my opinion.

However, most of his students have the same problem he had when he pitched; a level of confidence that is not good enough to be dominating.

Granted, he has had some exceptional students now and then (every 4 or 5 years or so) that were dominanting and DID have an excellent level of self-confidence. Most of them had that before coming to him.

He was constantly saying something like "Yeah, when Jen H. did so and so at her Div 1 school...." He was always citing their accomplishments and never HIS OWN experience. That most definitely showed up in his students level of confidence.

There is a major difference in an instructor saying to his student "If you do this just like Jen H does, the batter might do this...." OR "If you do this, the batter WILL do this..."

The level of confidence the instructor exudes will ALSO be reflected in his students, this is where, many times, an experienced pitcher / instructor will have the edge over someone that did not pitch.

There are always exceptions to every rule.

 

[sluggers]

OK. Here is another one for this discussion;
You are about to go into battle. Who would you rather have leading your unit?:
1. A sarge that did three tours of duty in Viet Nam and has numerous medals for valor and bravery?
2. A Lieutenant, fresh out of the academy with no experience on the battlefield?

You go with the Lieutenant...because the Sarge would be pushing 70 years old and couldn't keep up with the soldiers. The Sarge would also reach for a map, while the Lieutenant would pull out the GPS.

The Sarge wouldn't know the latest techniques or tools that are available, and, even if he did, he wouldn't know how to use them. He wouldn't know about cell phones, the Internet, laser guided weapons, drones, night vision, etc. And, old military men tend to always "fight the last war" rather than the new war.

 

[BoardMember]

While I think those who haven't pitched probably may do an OK job........Being able to throw the kind of pitch you're teaching in front of the student is a huge advantage for visual emulation of both mechanics and spin/movement and location examples etc......

For example....."Hey Jen H, when I say off the plate this is what I mean"......or "Hey Jen H, when I say it should break late, this is what it looks like"........

There is no substitute for this kind of instant feed back and mechanics training IMO.........

You go with the Lieutenant...because the Sarge would be pushing 70 years old and couldn't keep up with the soldiers. The Sarge would also reach for a map, while the Lieutenant would pull out the GPS.

The Sarge wouldn't know the latest techniques or tools that are available, and, even if he did, he wouldn't know how to use them. He wouldn't know about cell phones, the Internet, laser guided weapons, drones, night vision, etc. And, old military men tend to always "fight the last war" rather than the new war.

 

[Mark H]

You go with the Lieutenant...because the Sarge would be pushing 70 years old and couldn't keep up with the soldiers. The Sarge would also reach for a map, while the Lieutenant would pull out the GPS.

The Sarge wouldn't know the latest techniques or tools that are available, and, even if he did, he wouldn't know how to use them. He wouldn't know about cell phones, the Internet, laser guided weapons, drones, night vision, etc. And, old military men tend to always "fight the last war" rather than the new war.

I'd take them both.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Don't let Hal fool you into thinking that he can't throw the pitch he is demonstrating.

I have no problem instilling confidence in my students. They know when they sign up that I wasn't a college pitcher. I was a college coach that had to learn to pitch. (And I have a PE degree.)

They do know that I still play and I tell them about the close calls I have and why I wear a facemask.

My students start at age 6. I am a stickler for good form and protecting their arms. I video tape and review their lessons, a lot.

If I need to show the student the pitch we are demonstrating, I bring in DD. I don't know how you can teach a dropball w/o letting them see it.

I find some girls that want a female coach, rather than a male, sometimes - even when I am teaching them to throw over hand.

 

[sjsss]

Some Pitching Coaches who pitched don’t have a clue and have not bothered to learn beyond their own frame of reference. Others who pitched are the absolute best, the recognized authorities in our field.

Some Pitching Coaches who did not pitch are excellent technicians and communicators, others are complete frauds.

It is impossible to support categorical statements exalting one above the other. Our responsibility as Pitching Coaches is to continue to learn, increase our competency and fulfill our great obligation to our students to bring them as far as their talent will allow.

 

[sluggers]

A few years back, I ran into a young man who got all the way to "The Show". He had a hitting lesson from Willie Mays, one of the greatest players in the history of the game. The young man said the lesson was worthless. Willie didn't know how to explain hitting other than "swing the bat and hit the ball."

My experience has been that the best coaches in any sport are the ones who had to work very hard at the craft, and so learned all the little ways to get an edge. The ones who come to it "naturally" didn't have to learn the basics.

 

[Mark H]

Some Pitching Coaches who pitched don’t have a clue and have not bothered to learn beyond their own frame of reference. Others who pitched are the absolute best, the recognized authorities in our field.

Some Pitching Coaches who did not pitch are excellent technicians and communicators, others are complete frauds.

It is impossible to support categorical statements exalting one above the other. Our responsibility as Pitching Coaches is to continue to learn, increase our competency and fulfill our great obligation to our students to bring them as far as their talent will allow.

Yeah, there's a guy in town who never pitched but he's produced all americans. There's a guy in town who did pitch, will give lessons for free, and has produced one kid who made it to a low level D1 and a bunch of washouts. That's what is available here. OTOH, I know a dad who drives his kid three hours to see Bobby Smith so it depends. I think I'd work with the guy who never pitched for mechanics and then I'd go drive to go see Bobby for finishing touches given what's available in this area. I'd go see Hillhouse when he came near once a year and pick his brain too. If I had another young one, that would be my plan.

 

[CoachFP]

Yeah, there's a guy in town who never pitched but he's produced all americans. There's a guy in town who did pitch, will give lessons for free, and has produced one kid who made it to a low level D1 and a bunch of washouts. That's what is available here. OTOH, I know a dad who drives his kid three hours to see Bobby Smith so it depends. I think I'd work with the guy who never pitched for mechanics and then I'd go drive to go see Bobby for finishing touches given what's available in this area. I'd go see Hillhouse when he came near once a year and pick his brain too. If I had another young one, that would be my plan.

I am not necessarily picking at your post in particular, but I love when people say the pitching coach "produced" all americans. Just like Ernie Parker produced Lisa Fernandez (who was very good before she met him). There have been plenty of all americans that have poor mechanics and would have been better had they gone to someone who would have taught them correctly. In viewing the CWS I see horrendous cases of poor mechanics every year. If somebody learns poor technique early on, taking them to Bobby Smith may be too late.