Should pitching instructors only be pitchers?
- Thread starter bigboyk
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I was going to disagree with that one too. The fact that someone hit and or pitched does not make them a good coach. Often times they don't know how or why they did what they did. Conversely, the ability to study mechanics and teach them doesn't require being able to perform them. Two entirely different things.
I would even go so far as to say one should seek out a women PC who has played the game (preferably at the college level). My DD responds very favorable to her female PC which instructs her differently than her male counterparts. I'm not saying that there are not excellent male PCs out there, but all things being equal, I will chose the game tested, female PC.
Mark H - I respect your wisdom and experience, but your analogy is flawed (the patient is irrelevant, its the experience of the neurosurgeon and the doctor's that train him that's important)
Mark H - I respect your wisdom and experience, but your analogy is flawed (the patient is irrelevant, its the experience of the neurosurgeon and the doctor's that train him that's important)
Many college basketball coaches (for example) were not very good basketball players. Coaching comes from the heart, not the physical ability.
No one ever asks me about my pitching experience. They want to know if I can get the most out of their DDs.
No one ever asks me about my pitching experience. They want to know if I can get the most out of their DDs.
- Aug 21, 2008
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- 113
Socal
I understand where you're coming from. In the clinics and presentations that I do, I tell this little story to let people know where I came from: I have been playing softball since I was 12 and never played baseball in my life. Since there was no male fastpitch for kids in my area, I had to play against grown men. Now put that in perspective.. I was 12 yrs old and pitching against GROWN MEN. Guys who played in college baseball, some even played some pro ball. Either way, try to fathom putting a 12 yr old girl against the Akron Racers, or any adult women's team. Most people cannot wrap their heads around that. So I didn't grow up pitching against my peers, as most girls do today. I grew up pitching against my elders. And I got my brains beat in. I got CRUSHED. But I absolutely have been doing this since I was physically able to get the ball over the plate. I wouldn't say that's "common" among male pitchers in fastpitch but it illustrates that I didn't just roll out of bed and become capable of doing what I do now.
Curious George inadvertently brought up a good point. All too often, a pitching coach is given way too much credit for someone's success. That goes for Ernie, myself, Cheri Kempf, or anyone. In my particular case, every kid I see gets the SAME info as the next kid. I teach them what I do myself and WHY I do it. It's what they do with that info and how hard they work that separates them. For sure there are some kids who just don't get it and are not cut out for this. Just as some people are not cut out for other things. But in many cases, the difference is work.
Bill
I understand where you're coming from. In the clinics and presentations that I do, I tell this little story to let people know where I came from: I have been playing softball since I was 12 and never played baseball in my life. Since there was no male fastpitch for kids in my area, I had to play against grown men. Now put that in perspective.. I was 12 yrs old and pitching against GROWN MEN. Guys who played in college baseball, some even played some pro ball. Either way, try to fathom putting a 12 yr old girl against the Akron Racers, or any adult women's team. Most people cannot wrap their heads around that. So I didn't grow up pitching against my peers, as most girls do today. I grew up pitching against my elders. And I got my brains beat in. I got CRUSHED. But I absolutely have been doing this since I was physically able to get the ball over the plate. I wouldn't say that's "common" among male pitchers in fastpitch but it illustrates that I didn't just roll out of bed and become capable of doing what I do now.
Curious George inadvertently brought up a good point. All too often, a pitching coach is given way too much credit for someone's success. That goes for Ernie, myself, Cheri Kempf, or anyone. In my particular case, every kid I see gets the SAME info as the next kid. I teach them what I do myself and WHY I do it. It's what they do with that info and how hard they work that separates them. For sure there are some kids who just don't get it and are not cut out for this. Just as some people are not cut out for other things. But in many cases, the difference is work.
Bill
- Aug 21, 2008
- 2,383
- 113
Hal, I will disagree with you on some of this but your last sentence has me confused. Are you saying it's proper to teach mechanics one way at a certain age, then change them later?
Bill
I also disagree that you can't teach pitching (or any other skill) without having played.
The core mechanics, and even many of the nuances, aren't rocket science. To be an effective skills coach, you need two things:
1. A deep and accurate understanding of why and how things work in the skill being taught, and
2. The ability to convey that understanding in a way your students can understand.
Of the two, the second is probably the more difficult to master. You can get the first if you study hard, are capable of thinking, and are willing to try it yourself even if it's not in a game. If you're not born with the second it's tough to acquire it. It's more something that's in you DNA in my opinion.
One of the more interesting phenomena among teachers who used to play is a tendency to adhere to the methods they were taught rather than thinking through whether that's the best way to do it. Many use the same drills or cues without trying to discover whether there's a better way.
Not all, of course. The best coaches are constantly looking for new information and better ways to teach. They'll come up with different drills or explanations as-needed.
The bottom line to me is knowledge isn't exclusive to one group or the other. It's out there to be had -- if you're willing to learn.
The core mechanics, and even many of the nuances, aren't rocket science. To be an effective skills coach, you need two things:
1. A deep and accurate understanding of why and how things work in the skill being taught, and
2. The ability to convey that understanding in a way your students can understand.
Of the two, the second is probably the more difficult to master. You can get the first if you study hard, are capable of thinking, and are willing to try it yourself even if it's not in a game. If you're not born with the second it's tough to acquire it. It's more something that's in you DNA in my opinion.
One of the more interesting phenomena among teachers who used to play is a tendency to adhere to the methods they were taught rather than thinking through whether that's the best way to do it. Many use the same drills or cues without trying to discover whether there's a better way.
Not all, of course. The best coaches are constantly looking for new information and better ways to teach. They'll come up with different drills or explanations as-needed.
The bottom line to me is knowledge isn't exclusive to one group or the other. It's out there to be had -- if you're willing to learn.
Dies pitching experience make a difference?
Certain individuals are a great deal more gifted than others when it comes to teaching. Some people have a great deal more interest in learning as much as possible about the finer points regarding pitching mechanics. These are 2 elements that are considered by many as being very important in becoming an effective pitching coach (as far as mechanics). Do all elite pitchers possess these 2 credentials? No. Are these the only 2 elements needed to become a very good pitching coach? No. If you add a great deal of pitching experience to the above criteria, would this make a significant difference? Here's a couple of examples: how many non-pitchers know exactly what it feels like and what is actually happening with their hips right after the 12 o'clock phase? How many non-pitchers have actually felt the contribution of the stride knee and leg to the forward thrust? Can this really make a difference when teaching pitching mechanics? I know of one person who has never pitched softball but in my opinion is a very knowledgeable person as far as pitching mechanics. I know a lot more who are somewhat book smart but... All I'm saying is a picture is worth a thousand words but a thousand words can't always replace a picture.
Certain individuals are a great deal more gifted than others when it comes to teaching. Some people have a great deal more interest in learning as much as possible about the finer points regarding pitching mechanics. These are 2 elements that are considered by many as being very important in becoming an effective pitching coach (as far as mechanics). Do all elite pitchers possess these 2 credentials? No. Are these the only 2 elements needed to become a very good pitching coach? No. If you add a great deal of pitching experience to the above criteria, would this make a significant difference? Here's a couple of examples: how many non-pitchers know exactly what it feels like and what is actually happening with their hips right after the 12 o'clock phase? How many non-pitchers have actually felt the contribution of the stride knee and leg to the forward thrust? Can this really make a difference when teaching pitching mechanics? I know of one person who has never pitched softball but in my opinion is a very knowledgeable person as far as pitching mechanics. I know a lot more who are somewhat book smart but... All I'm saying is a picture is worth a thousand words but a thousand words can't always replace a picture.
IMO, experience is the best teacher, pitching is not just the physical, technical requirements, it's also the mental approach. I believe in order to convey that required mental appraoch it would help if you have been on the mound pitching to the number three batter with two on in a close game.
I could proclaim to be a pitching insrtuctor and I would be able to talk the lingo and teach the basics, but when the kid hands me the ball and says show me, I would be screwed. I wouldn't take swimming lessons from a guy in a life vest, that's all I'm saying.
I could proclaim to be a pitching insrtuctor and I would be able to talk the lingo and teach the basics, but when the kid hands me the ball and says show me, I would be screwed. I wouldn't take swimming lessons from a guy in a life vest, that's all I'm saying.
