FiveFrameSwing
Banned
Hahaha ... nice CB!
Series of Hitting Failures
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Cannonball
Ex "Expert"
- Feb 25, 2009
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FFS, I have a ton of papers to grade this weekend and so don't have time to find and post a video of Pujols I viewed recently. Heck, I don't even remember where I saw it. Do you have any video of any young ladies that might give members here a view of what I described? I think it is very important to this point.
Agree with Ken that she drops her hands. When a player drops their hands like this it indicates that they have not yet learned how to tuck their back elbow down or establish connection. Everyone I have ever seen swing a bat tucks the back elbow down to their side. It's a natural movement that most of us are born knowing how to do. There are at least three ways to get the back elbow down when swinging a bat. You can hit a ball doing any of the three, but one is vastly more efficient than the others and will allow you to hit good pitching more consistently.
We start with a small tee-ball bat and swing off of a tee with the top hand using the side arm throw action. The movement you're looking for is the back elbow working underneath the hand. From there we move to their game bat using two hands. When you do the side arm throw action with two hands on the bat, you get the hard push swing that Williams described. The Helicopter drill is another good drill to use to help the kids get the feel of throwing the bat or throwing the barrel. Have them move their bottom hand down on the knob so it doesn't hurt the side of their hand when they release the bat. When done correctly the bat should fly through the air like a helicopter blade.
We start with a small tee-ball bat and swing off of a tee with the top hand using the side arm throw action. The movement you're looking for is the back elbow working underneath the hand. From there we move to their game bat using two hands. When you do the side arm throw action with two hands on the bat, you get the hard push swing that Williams described. The Helicopter drill is another good drill to use to help the kids get the feel of throwing the bat or throwing the barrel. Have them move their bottom hand down on the knob so it doesn't hurt the side of their hand when they release the bat. When done correctly the bat should fly through the air like a helicopter blade.
A quick review:
#1 Swing - high & outside pitch, decent swing, ball out of the strike zone
#2 Swing - down & in pitch, front arm bar, no tilt, ball out of the strike zone
#3 Swing - outside pitch, throws hands out and reaches, ball out of the strike zone
#4 Swing - low & outside pitch, drops hands, no tilt, ball out of the strike zone
#5 Swing - low & outside pitch, no tilt, front arm bar, ball out of the strike zone
#6 Swing - high & outside pitch, throws hands at ball, total disconnected swing, ball out of strike zone
#7 Swing - low pitch, drops hands, no tilt
#8 Swing - outside pitch, drops hands, disconnected swing, ball out of strike zone
#1 swing may be her best effort. Swinging at bad pitches is a symptom of lack of live pitching batting practice. She may be a bit too stiff and upright. I like her bat wrap on the load. Discuss maintaining connection through her swing to keep from dropping her hands on low pitches and the tilt will be a no teach. Overall she looks like a solid hitter/player.
#1 Swing - high & outside pitch, decent swing, ball out of the strike zone
#2 Swing - down & in pitch, front arm bar, no tilt, ball out of the strike zone
#3 Swing - outside pitch, throws hands out and reaches, ball out of the strike zone
#4 Swing - low & outside pitch, drops hands, no tilt, ball out of the strike zone
#5 Swing - low & outside pitch, no tilt, front arm bar, ball out of the strike zone
#6 Swing - high & outside pitch, throws hands at ball, total disconnected swing, ball out of strike zone
#7 Swing - low pitch, drops hands, no tilt
#8 Swing - outside pitch, drops hands, disconnected swing, ball out of strike zone
#1 swing may be her best effort. Swinging at bad pitches is a symptom of lack of live pitching batting practice. She may be a bit too stiff and upright. I like her bat wrap on the load. Discuss maintaining connection through her swing to keep from dropping her hands on low pitches and the tilt will be a no teach. Overall she looks like a solid hitter/player.
well -
By power push swing, I think Williams was describing the unique feel of arm action necessary for a swing that is quick by applying and controlling it primarily with handle torque - the arm action, especially rear arm, of the HLBB/elite MLB pattern.
This requires top hand as power hand and rear arm/forearm action at GO where forearm SUPINATION is/becomes primary followed by extension at the elbow, then getting to contact with top hand wrist unbroken (still dorsiflexed) or in any case before rolling (staying "palm-up"/no forearm PRONATION or upper arm INTERNL ROTATION which would start turning the palm down before contact.
This type of "palm-up extension" sequence without (top hand wrist unbroken/still "set"/remaining dorsiflexed) or with breaking of top hand wrist (margin of error improved by extending contact zone as top hand wrist "unsets"/flexes/aDducts) is the unique "power push" (top hand as power hand) feel of the HLBB/eliteMLB swing pattern with early batspeed and late adjustability.
The rear arm action is prepared/loaded for by cocking the hands/tipping the bat by not only ABduction and IR of the back arm, but by back arm (humerus) EXTENSION/getting the arm internally rotated and elbow up but ALSO ELBOW BACK. The rear forearm supination at GO is prepared for by positioning the rear palm facing pitcher via preparatory PRONATION.
As the motion proceeds to UNTIPPING, external rotation is NOT essential or primary as it is in overhand OR sidearm throw (where you need to prepare for the rapid acceleration via IR of the arm by getting the arm to form a loop by full external rotation). THIS is where the motions diverge related to arm action.
this is a transition where the hands take over to move the distal link with the more proximal links becoming reactive/responsive. The taking over is primarily via rear forearm SUPINATION.
The hands are positioned (on the fly adjustment starting as location is read) by whatever slotting action is needed which consists primarily of REAR UPPER ARM ADDUCTION WHILE REMAINING EXTENDED/"elbow back",especially feel of staying back which includes humerus extension as well as scap retraction/pinching and clamping on to torso. Rear foreram dominates by SUPINATION.
Then this upper arm EXTENSION must be retained as there is extension at the elbow (magnet breaks on Yeager's training device).
all of these pieces in sequence are necessary for the power push swing/feel.
emphasis on external rotation and failure to keep the rear upper arm/humerus extended will screw up slotting forcing an elbow instead of hand pivot or dragging the bat if the back elbow gets ahead by letting the upper arm flew/move past the slot too much toward the bellybutton.
Try some slomo emulation swings with this in mind, then speed things up and you can appreciate better what Williams was describing.
hands at 100%.
top hand as power hand.
power push swing.
contact with top hand wrist unbroken or at least not rolling.
By power push swing, I think Williams was describing the unique feel of arm action necessary for a swing that is quick by applying and controlling it primarily with handle torque - the arm action, especially rear arm, of the HLBB/elite MLB pattern.
This requires top hand as power hand and rear arm/forearm action at GO where forearm SUPINATION is/becomes primary followed by extension at the elbow, then getting to contact with top hand wrist unbroken (still dorsiflexed) or in any case before rolling (staying "palm-up"/no forearm PRONATION or upper arm INTERNL ROTATION which would start turning the palm down before contact.
This type of "palm-up extension" sequence without (top hand wrist unbroken/still "set"/remaining dorsiflexed) or with breaking of top hand wrist (margin of error improved by extending contact zone as top hand wrist "unsets"/flexes/aDducts) is the unique "power push" (top hand as power hand) feel of the HLBB/eliteMLB swing pattern with early batspeed and late adjustability.
The rear arm action is prepared/loaded for by cocking the hands/tipping the bat by not only ABduction and IR of the back arm, but by back arm (humerus) EXTENSION/getting the arm internally rotated and elbow up but ALSO ELBOW BACK. The rear forearm supination at GO is prepared for by positioning the rear palm facing pitcher via preparatory PRONATION.
As the motion proceeds to UNTIPPING, external rotation is NOT essential or primary as it is in overhand OR sidearm throw (where you need to prepare for the rapid acceleration via IR of the arm by getting the arm to form a loop by full external rotation). THIS is where the motions diverge related to arm action.
this is a transition where the hands take over to move the distal link with the more proximal links becoming reactive/responsive. The taking over is primarily via rear forearm SUPINATION.
The hands are positioned (on the fly adjustment starting as location is read) by whatever slotting action is needed which consists primarily of REAR UPPER ARM ADDUCTION WHILE REMAINING EXTENDED/"elbow back",especially feel of staying back which includes humerus extension as well as scap retraction/pinching and clamping on to torso. Rear foreram dominates by SUPINATION.
Then this upper arm EXTENSION must be retained as there is extension at the elbow (magnet breaks on Yeager's training device).
all of these pieces in sequence are necessary for the power push swing/feel.
emphasis on external rotation and failure to keep the rear upper arm/humerus extended will screw up slotting forcing an elbow instead of hand pivot or dragging the bat if the back elbow gets ahead by letting the upper arm flew/move past the slot too much toward the bellybutton.
Try some slomo emulation swings with this in mind, then speed things up and you can appreciate better what Williams was describing.
hands at 100%.
top hand as power hand.
power push swing.
contact with top hand wrist unbroken or at least not rolling.
Last edited:
- Oct 25, 2009
- 3,334
- 48
I think Wellphyt understands Williams very well. And he definitely communicates it very well.
Well since I started this thread in the fall I thought I would show a couple of successes. Our High School team is at this point still alive in a very competative State tourney. Here are 2 hits off one of the best pitchers in the state. 1. A change up 2. Not really sure.
Thanks for posting the successes. Looking back on this thread my posts were pretty dumb. Agree with MTS maybe the biggest problem is wrapping the bat and dropping the hands.
This forum is valuable. One of the things MTS got in a kick of ranting about a few months back was getting the front side down. That has become a key to my dd and another I am working with that is batting .439 this season. I've been looking for it more and more with others.
FiveFrameSwing
Banned
The two swings use a different lower body running start. Any reason for that?
