Screwball video

[howellhandmade]

I believe it was Ray (Sluggers) that posted some movement numbers from the WCWS. Screwballs, at the top college level, only break 2-3 inches. They really don't move much.

Angles are what fool batters. It's what makes a rise work (we all know they don't break), it's what makes a curve work, and all the other "breaking" pitches. A pitcher hitting their spot trumps all else, and pitchers don't just throw to a "spot", but throw to a zone angling over the corners of the plate. They should be aware of where the ball is 15' out from the batter (when the decision is made to swing) and where the ball is when it's under the umpires eyeballs. The differences in these two locations are the key to successful pitching.

-W

Can't seem to find Sluggers's movement post with the search feature. Anybody have it handy?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Grips are a personal preference. You see a lot of strange stuff with the screwball. This is probably because even the best thrown ones don't move all that much (as mentioned above), so pitchers can get away with throwing with weird spins that don't necessarily break at all. Some people say that the baseball "gyroball" is really a good screwball. The gyroball is thrown with a bullet spin, and we all know that bullet spin gets no break at all. So there's a lot of sillyness.

My DD uses this grip for hers:



-W

Still looks like a basic FB thrown at an angle.

 

[gvm]

gvm, why worry about the grip or the proper way to throw a screwball if it doesn't break anyway?

i'm just trying to help my daughter become a great pitcher? i don't want to argue about how fast a young girl can or cannot throw. or what pitch moves and what pitch doesn't. i'm just trying to help my kid...

 

[tojo]

i'm just trying to help my daughter become a great pitcher? i don't want to argue about how fast a young girl can or cannot throw. or what pitch moves and what pitch doesn't. i'm just trying to help my kid...

gvm, I know you want your DD to become a great pitcher. My post is directed to the naysayers that don't see the movement on the Denny Tincher screwball video. Screwballs do break if thrown correctly is my point and are not just a angle pitch. Good luck to you and your DD in her endeavor to become a great pitcher.

 

[redhotcoach]

A ball that spins 6:00-12:00 rises. A ball that spins 12:00-6:00 drops. A ball that spins west-east curves, but a ball that spins east-west doesn't move. Must be do to the rotation of the earth. Maybe in the southern hemisphere it moves.

 

[starsnuffer]

I never said they don't move, just that they don't move much, especially compared to a curve. Curve ball mechanics work with natural motion and in tandem with arm whip (IR, whatever you want to call it). This is especially true if the curve is thrown with a top grip. Curveballs thrown with a bottom grip still work with natural movement and have a bit of frisbee/rock skipping motion added in. It's simply far more natural and potent to impart the west-east spin on a ball when pitching overhand.

It's much more difficult to impart that east-west spin. This is where a lot of screwball nonsense and dangerous mechanics come into play. People go through strange lengths to try to fight the body's natural movement to spin the ball this way. In the end, however, the fingers are what spin the ball, and some of that spin has to go opposite the way that arm whip wants to spin the ball. What you end up with is a slower rate of spin on screwballs, hence a weaker break.

HOWEVER! Many screwballs are thrown (successfully) incorrectly. With the advent of things like the Rev-Fire, pitchers have learned that the number of spin rotations can be more important to a recruiter then the actual direction of spin. A rev-fire will only measure the spin rate, not the spin direction. You have a lot of bullet-spin screwballs being pitched with the same spin rate as a curve ball. To the recruiter, the numbers indicate more spins must mean a stronger pitcher.

So, again, a screwball can break, and many do, but that isn't what actually makes the pitch work. It's the angle.

FFS can say that it's a fastball thrown at an angle, but I'd say that a fastball thrown at an angle is not a fastball. The point of a fastball is to beat the batters timing, you do this by getting the ball from point A to point B as fast as possible. This is done two ways: First, by moving point A closer to the batter (longest stride possible, many pitchers get away with illegal replants to get closer), and second, by keeping the pitch as straight as possible. Pitch released on the third based side of the rubber to an inside target will result in the quickest fastball. A fastball thrown from 1B side of the rubber to an inside target is a not-as-fast fastball, which is a pretty messed up concept, hence the screwball.

-W

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

On a radar gun I'll often read a pitcher's screwball as coming in at the same speed as their fastball. Sure ... I understand that the distance for an angled pitch may be slightly longer, but I often see a very similar speed as measured with a radar gun.

 

[starsnuffer]

Radar guns are measuring the actual speed of the pitch, so that makes sense. Radar guns are not measuring the time it takes the ball to get from release to the batter, which is more important.

There's a big concern by the internet community to measure, comment, and critique on all sorts of meaningless facets of sports mechanics. If you read a golf forum, you'll see posters comment that Tiger Woods twitches his left pectoral twice before his chip shot, and they'll try to get enthusiasts to believe that this is important. You see a lot of this in the hitting forum, it's rather silly.

Results are what matters. Wins and losses. Does the pitcher beat the batter using this particular tool? If so, what kind of batters? What situations? These are important. The particular shade of blue the sky was when Sally Olympian used the pitch to beat Bashimodo Hitsalot in the 2004 games. . . . less important.

-W

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

The screwball is a special pitch ... it isn't 'just' about beating the batter ... although that is certainly part of equation.

A fast screwball can chew up some decent batters. Hitting ... good hitting anyway ... involves an inside/out swing. The swing is not optimal for "looking out" and "reacting in" ... and the screwball takes advantage of those that fall into that category.

 

[starsnuffer]

The screwball is a special pitch ... it isn't 'just' about beating the batter ... although that is certainly part of equation.

A fast screwball can chew up some decent batters. Hitting ... good hitting anyway ... involves an inside/out swing. The swing is not optimal for "looking out" and "reacting in" ... and the screwball takes advantage of those that fall into that category.

I agree 100% with this, and the look in, adjust out hitting philosophy.

My pitching philosophy is that a pitcher is there to get outs, not necessarily strike outs. I teach catchers to call pitches based on what we need to do as a defensive unit to get an out. A pitcher with a "screwball" in there arsenal has one more tool that can be used to get the batter to hit where the pitcher wants them to hit in order to get the out that the defense wants to get. Strikeouts are icing on the cake.

-W