FiveFrameSwing
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Power Triangle
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- Apr 1, 2013
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Most of the high end hitting stuff with reference to certain muscle groups and rotation is above my understanding. But when FFS simplifies it down like he did with the rear butt cheek I totally got it. In fact when I actually physically did it the light bulb went on. Thanks!!
Five thanks for explanation and the visual demonstration. To the best of my knowledge and ability, I've been teaching the methods of Dr. Yeager. Is this comparable with Dr. Yeagers teaching? How does rear hip coil fit in to this or does it at all? Thank you for the help
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FiveFrameSwing
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Mike-Coach-Q, historically Doc Yeager has chosen not to describe the swing with these rotational type movements. In fact, despite his raw data showing such rotational movement, he has chosen to ignore them in his swing model. Instead Doc has tended to emphasize this area of the swing as a sideways forward move.
If you get more into the details you will find further discrepancies. For example, the logic here has it that the front hip will be pushed backwards as the body becomes rotated, and Yeager’s swing theory was more along the line of pushing the body into the front hip to create a front pivot point out front in which the rear hip was pulled forward to align with the front hip, with the front hip not moving rearward. From my perspective it is more a leveraged based model that doesn't quite answer how rotation is actually realized. It is my opinion the data suggests more of the former, than the later.
Compare this to one of Doc's students ....
I do believe Doc Yeager has some good information, and it is possible that he has changed his position somewhat since he published his DVD material.
If you get more into the details you will find further discrepancies. For example, the logic here has it that the front hip will be pushed backwards as the body becomes rotated, and Yeager’s swing theory was more along the line of pushing the body into the front hip to create a front pivot point out front in which the rear hip was pulled forward to align with the front hip, with the front hip not moving rearward. From my perspective it is more a leveraged based model that doesn't quite answer how rotation is actually realized. It is my opinion the data suggests more of the former, than the later.
Compare this to one of Doc's students ....
I do believe Doc Yeager has some good information, and it is possible that he has changed his position somewhat since he published his DVD material.
FiveFrameSwing
Banned
Mike-Coach-Q, I don't know if you followed Butter's comment about the sacrum moving rearward, but that would be in contrast to Doc Yeager's swing theory ... yet it is what we see here.
Great information five thanks for the help. The problem I've seen with most of my high school players is the inability to hit the outside pitch. What I liked about Doc Yeager's teaching is the hip cock and the shoulder not over rotating beyond the ability to cover the outer half of the plate. Most of my kids rotate so early and so much the barrel path is circular and in and out of the zone. I just want my kids to reach their full potential , I don't want to be the reason they didn't reach it.
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5frames,
Do you see it differently from simply "arching the lower back"?
Do you see it differently from simply "arching the lower back"?
FiveFrameSwing
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Shawn, I see it as a combination of the rear lower back arching and rear side lateral bend.
- May 3, 2014
- 2,149
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Mike-Coach, I am assuming the interest is in understanding the cue to “brush off the rear butt cheek” to start your swing.
Imagine that you are standing and decide to sit on a bench. As you sit you sense that your rear butt cheek (right butt cheek for a RH hitter, left butt cheek for a LH hitter) sat on an object other than the bench. You are curious if something is now adhering to your rear butt cheek. So you stand up, and look behind at your rear butt cheek as you brush it off.
The act of looking behind and brushing off your rear butt cheek is meant to cause you to perform two actions simultaneously … 1) the rear side laterally bends, which basically brings the rear shoulder and rear hip closer together, AND 2) lordosis, which basically is the arching of the rear side lower back.
From this orientation, you simply redirect your vision forward and place your rear arm/elbow/hand in a semi-slotting position … and you’ll assume an orientation roughly something similar to the pause shown here …
Basically … brush off your rear butt cheek to start your swing.
This is Kelvin Miyahira's cue that is quoted here http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-hitting-technical/26554-power-triangle.html#post367373
But, how you "brush" off your rear butt cheek to start your swing is where the rubber meets the road - you should be using your inner core muscles such as the multifidus, QL's and Psoas. If you just drop your rear shoulder to laterally bend you are not using the correct muscles. It's nice to try and oversimplify a complex movement but if it was that easy everyone would be moving like the world class hitters and golfers.
Read Kelvin's article about 15 times and let the underlying biomechanics sink in.
2015-07 : How Great Players Rotate In A Golf Swing
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