Playing dirty? Totally fair?

[nikkilugi]

At 10U it is pretty common to get out at 1st with a ball hit to right. Especially a hard hit ground ball that travels there fast. DD was the victim of that a few times in 10U with how hard she would hit it. It is not a foregone conclusion that would be even a single much less a double in 10's

 

[djcarter1966]

And the RF made the throw to 1B. The coach should have told the runner to run through the base. YES WE ALL AGREE ON THIS

Coach and runner should have been ejected. BUT WHY WOULD EJECT SOMEONE FOR DOING SOMETHING THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO DO...ROUND THE BAG AND GO TO 2B IT"S NOT THE RUNNER FAULT 1B IS IN THE PATH; if the umpire rules the conduct was unsportsmanlike and malicious fine but just the fact she got run over is not enough

Still not sure why I'm devils advocating this...I completely disagree with this coach and tactic but it is just that a tactic that while bush league in my opinion is not illegal and certainly not a reason to berate a 10 yr old doing what she was coached that is completely legal. Again I'm still not sure where the outrage was a few weeks ago at the CWS

 

[riseball]

Still not sure why I'm devils advocating this...I completely disagree with this coach and tactic but it is just that a tactic that while bush league in my opinion is not illegal and certainly not a reason to berate a 10 yr old doing what she was coached that is completely legal. Again I'm still not sure where the outrage was a few weeks ago at the CWS

That is nothing more than conjecture based on what you hope to be true.

 

[soonerfan1966]

and your posts are not conjecture, based on what may i ask.

 

[Rmc1981]

I'd like to hear from one of the Umps on here, but in my opinion, the BR does NOT have a right to the inside corner here. There is a play being made, though late, at first on a force play. Should the 1B have set up on the other corner of the bat to get closer to RF? Of course, but in my opinion, it's because it brings her closer to the ball, not because she has to get out of the way of the BR.

10U A ball, in my experience, girls are thrown out from RF at 1st regularly, and if they round trying to draw the throw, my 1st year 10 and 2nd year 10 would have easily thrown this girl out at 2nd 80% of the time. Please round and go to second here. I will take the free out every time.

In my opinion, this is more of interference on the BR than obstruction on the 1B. According to some of the rules posted here, the girl should have been ejected.

 

[Rambler34]

The difference is likely college versus 10U. 1B wasn't even close to blocking the path to first base and if the kid hadn't been planning to run her over, she'd have run through the bag given where the hit landed.

Not saying the hit was in anyway ok, the girl plowed her. This ball was hit to right field with another runner on base you can see scoring in the video. If I am coaching first which did at that level my runner is making a turn. She was pretty much to the bag when the ball was thrown. I am trying to draw the throw to protect the other runner and also try to create a little chaos so my girl on first can advance.

I can also say 99% of the girls I coached would have made every effort to avoid the girl on the bag unless they absolutely were focused on the ball and didn't pay attention to the fielder which is a different problem. I could see a slight bump on accident but not dropping her completely.

 

[riseball]

and your posts are not conjecture, based on what may i ask.

We do not know how she was coached. We do know what she did based on the video.

 

[eddieq]

I'd like to hear from one of the Umps on here, but in my opinion, the BR does NOT have a right to the inside corner here. There is a play being made, though late, at first on a force play. Should the 1B have set up on the other corner of the bat to get closer to RF? Of course, but in my opinion, it's because it brings her closer to the ball, not because she has to get out of the way of the BR.

10U A ball, in my experience, girls are thrown out from RF at 1st regularly, and if they round trying to draw the throw, my 1st year 10 and 2nd year 10 would have easily thrown this girl out at 2nd 80% of the time. Please round and go to second here. I will take the free out every time.

In my opinion, this is more of interference on the BR than obstruction on the 1B. According to some of the rules posted here, the girl should have been ejected.

The batter runner has the right to any path she chooses to advance. If she is attempting to advance to second on this, we would have obstruction and the runner is protected to the base where the umpire judged she would have reached absent the obstruction.

If I'm calling this game and I rule obstruction on this play, that's first base. There is no way she reaches second safely on that, in my judgement.

However, from what I saw in the video before it was dropped and the subsequent gif captures, the batter runner was not trying to advance to second, but trying to initiate contact hoping to draw an obstruction call. Here I let the play finish out, eject the batter runner for an unsportsman like act and allow the coach to provide a substitute on the base (first).

 

[Rmc1981]

The batter runner has the right to any path she chooses to advance. If she is attempting to advance to second on this, we would have obstruction and the runner is protected to the base where the umpire judged she would have reached absent the obstruction.

If I'm calling this game and I rule obstruction on this play, that's first base. There is no way she reaches second safely on that, in my judgement.

However, from what I saw in the video before it was dropped and the subsequent gif captures, the batter runner was not trying to advance to second, but trying to initiate contact hoping to draw an obstruction call. Here I let the play finish out, eject the batter runner for an unsportsman like act and allow the coach to provide a substitute on the base (first).

Thanks for replying. For my frame of reference, are you an umpire? Not trying to be rude, just wondering.


I'm not sure that I agree with this. I can think of multiple times when a runner does not have the right to any path she chooses to advance. And I guess that's the basis of why I'd call it interference on the BR. IMO, which very well may be wrong thus my reason for asking umps, this is one of those. When there is a force play being made at 1st base, she is protected running through the bag, not rounding it to advance. It's muddy here because its clear on the video, that the runner will be safe. So then, I would assume that it becomes a judgment call on the part of the umpire.

I do agree that she should not be awarded 2nd here, even if it was obstruction.

 

[spleen1015]

For me, it doesn't matter if the base runner has a right to the inside corner of the base or not.

Let's make sure we remember the situation here. This is a really good A team that's already up 10 runs. In my experience, the game is already over at this point. There is no need for this play to happen. NONE. Let's be real. The winning team is not learning anything by trucking over this 1B. NOTHING. So, what's the point?

This is 10u where the players are still learning how to play, on both sides. There is no need for this play to happen, I don't care what you say. If I'm the umpire and I see this, the player gets ejected. She purposely ran over the 1B. No excuse for it, I don't care what level you're playing.