Pitching Officienados - what kind of pitcher?

[3DD'sDAD]

So I just finished reading the thread "What do I tell her?" and found some comments interesting. I have one question to those that can really (and I mean truly) coach or pitch (Bill or Boardmember et al).

I have heard that someone who is "a drop ball pitcher" can have a rise ball; and someone who is "a rise ball pitcher" can have a drop ball - but that is basically it. A pitcher will excel at one, but not both. So basically my question is.........can a not so exceptional pitcher (eg other than Tincher, Finch, Mendosa etc etc) excel at both? Or does a drop ball pitcher simply have a rise and a rise ball pitcher simply have a drop?

BTW, and as an aside, my DD is 15, throws FB, CU and drop all effectively and is trying to learn the rise, just to "throw in there every now and then". Every now and then there is other movement (lateral both ways; not on the same pitch ) but is not intentional. When asked "how did you throw that?" the response has always been " I don't know"

 

[dbias]

My dd started out as a dropball pitcher, very nasty pitch, and has picked a very good drop. I do not think those two pitches would interfere with each other much at all. Drop, change, and rise is really all that is needed along with pinpoint placement. However,once the rise is in place and the curve ball is introduced i have seen days when my daughter will have one of the pitches and not the other. i think that the curveball will pollute a riseball a bit. Most days my dd has great control of the rise but some days the curve does not drop like it should and stays flat, looking a little like a rise and that is a bad thing ( she had one jacked over the fence ).

 

[CoachFP]

I believe the term "drop ball" pitcher or "rise ball" pitcher is generally given to somebody where an opponent or follower of believes that the pitcher's best pitch is the one for which the name is given. If anyone in any endeavor does several things, it stands to reason that all of them may not be equal. And if one is better, then that would be the one for which the pitcher goes to in clutch situations. Osterman's is the drop. We all know that. It is not her change up. Since pitching each of the pitches requires a different skill set it is very difficult to master more than two pitches and very few pitchers have 3 extremely good pitches. It doesn't matter how you describe it, but usually a pitcher has a best pitch and that is what they can be known for.

 

[sluggers]

Your run-of-the-mill Daddy routinely underestimates how hard it is to strike out a good batter. He assumes that all a pitcher has to do is to chuck three drop balls toward the plate and the #4 hitter on UCLA is going to swing at it three times. So, he takes the DD out to the backyard, and when the DD can throw a drop ball 50% of the time and get it over the plate most of the time, he assumes the DD "has" a drop ball. So, the DD goes off to college, gets lit up like Christmas tree, and then the DD either quits or enjoys the rest of her college career watching softball from the bench.

"Having a pitch" means that you have exceptional control of the location of each pitch and that you can make the ball break 99.5% of the time. Exceptional "location control" means being able to place the ball in a specific, pre-defined location.

E.g., my DD could place a drop ball at feet of the batter, at the knees of the batter or at the waist of the batter, either off the plate by 2 inches or over the black on either side of the plate. She could do this on command. She could also do this at speeds ranging from 50 MPH to 61 MPH in about 3 MPH increments, and again, "on command". She could also make the drop ball screw or curve, again on command. So, yes, she "had" a drop ball. It took her years to get good with the pitch.

My DD also threw a rise. The rise was always up in the zone. She couldn't throw it for a strike, and she couldn't control the left or right location. So, to say she "had" a rise ball would be a fantasy.

It is possible for a pitcher to "have" both a rise and a drop...however, most female pitchers are finished with softball at 22 or 23. They don't have the time to become good with the other pitch. For most pitchers, it comes down to "Do you want to have one great pitch or two bad pitches?"

 

[dbias]

I believe the term "drop ball" pitcher or "rise ball" pitcher is generally given to somebody where an opponent or follower of believes that the pitcher's best pitch is the one for which the name is given. If anyone in any endeavor does several things, it stands to reason that all of them may not be equal. And if one is better, then that would be the one for which the pitcher goes to in clutch situations. Osterman's is the drop. We all know that. It is not her change up. Since pitching each of the pitches requires a different skill set it is very difficult to master more than two pitches and very few pitchers have 3 extremely good pitches. It doesn't matter how you describe it, but usually a pitcher has a best pitch and that is what they can be known for.

This is exactly what i meant when I said my dd was a dropball pitcher to start out with. She had a good fast ball and could throw it by just about 75% of batters until she turned 14 in HS and moved back to 43 feet. The drop still works fine but as of now she is becoming known as a curveball pitcher as it is quite effective now and i think the 43 feet is giving more room for it to break, she is very effective throwing outside to a righty and having it break into the nohit zone, but still needs work on throwing at the hitters hip and have it break over for a backdoor strike.

 

[starsnuffer]

"Having a pitch" means that you have exceptional control of the location of each pitch and that you can make the ball break 99.5% of the time. Exceptional "location control" means being able to place the ball in a specific, pre-defined location.

Great post Sluggers!

I want to emphasis this sentence and add that she must be able to do this ON COMMAND and do it THE FIRST TIME. When dad is catching daughter and is calling pitches, running batting scenarios, that drop ball needs to be on target and breaking the first time it's called, every time. Any kid can get it right after throwing it 3 times in a row.

-W

 

[Sparky Guy]

My DD also threw a rise. The rise was always up in the zone. She couldn't throw it for a strike, and she couldn't control the left or right location. So, to say she "had" a rise ball would be a fantasy.

Ray,

My daughter was the complete opposite of yours. Her drop sucked. She could throw one but it didn't have the good sharp break at the end. Her rise was great. She could put it where she wanted it. The majority of them were at or just out of the top of the zone. Too close for the hitters to lay off of. Occasionally she had a few swing at a pitch at their eyes. After the NCAA shrunk the top of the strike zone the rise ended up as being more of a setup pitch for the screw and curve.

 

[3DD'sDAD]

Some great responses folks. Ray I have to agree absolutely. I firmly believe a pitcher will have a "go to" pitch that she can spot at any time. I do believe that a pitcher needs a totally different pitch to show every now and again to keep batters thinking. Even if it is two bad rise balls(out of the zone) just to show a different look. I have found that the curve is not easy to teach to a "drop ball pitcher" for some reason. At least those that throw the turn over drop. Not sure why, it is what it is.

Thanks again for the responses. It supports my comments to our pitchers to concentrate on excelling at one, or maybe two pitches. Not 5 or 6