Pitching instructor won’t allow dd coach to attend lesson

[Westwind]

Here’s our story:

DD #2 was a 10u pitcher. She had a paid pitching instructor who was a former college pitcher. She was a smart, sharp person and looking back I believe she was doing a nice job with dd.

We also had a team pitching coach. He worked with pitchers 2x a week in practice and he had been a part of bringing numerous teams from the youngest ages up to 14’s. He was a fun guy and the kids loved him. Historically, the teams and pitchers were all quite successful so as far as we knew at the time, he knew what he was doing.

He wanted curves and screws. PI wanted this super young kid working form first. Somehow, I don’t remember how, it was decided that he would come to a lesson so they could all get on the same page.

It was a disaster. Team pitching coach and instructor got into it in front of dd. It was the team coach that made the initial overstep, the instructor didn’t handle it well. It escalated from there. We didn’t know what to do- we probably didn’t handle it well either. We stayed out of the fray but we didn’t know how to deal with it at the time. I wish I could go back and do it all over. I would have prevented that mess. We would have trusted the instructor. We would have found a way to mitigate the desperate inadequacy of a 9 year old not having a curve, screw, change and drop with the team coach lol

 

[Westwind]

Cannonball, my post isn’t a response to yours. I was hunting and pecking while you were posting!

 

[Hillhouse]

Ken, well done. My apologies for hijacking the thread!!! Not my intention but that's what happened.

Bill

 

[Hillhouse]

Here’s our story:

DD #2 was a 10u pitcher. She had a paid pitching instructor who was a former college pitcher. She was a smart, sharp person and looking back I believe she was doing a nice job with dd.

We had a team pitching coach. He worked with pitchers 2x a week in practice and he had been a part of bringing numerous teams from the youngest ages up to 14’s. He was a fun guy and the kids loved him. The teams and pitchers were all quite successful so as far as we could tell he knew what he was doing.

He wanted curves and screws. PI wanted this super young kid working form first. Somehow, I don’t remember how, it was decided that he would come to a lesson so they could all get on the same page.

It was a disaster. Team pitching coach and instructor got into it in front of dd. It was the team coach that made the initial overstep, the instructor didn’t handle it well. It escalated from there. We didn’t know what to do- we probably didn’t handle it well either. We stayed out of the fray but we didn’t know how to deal with it at the time. I wish I could go back and do it all over. I would have prevented that mess. We would have trusted the instructor. We would have found a way to mitigate the desperate inadequacy of a 9 year old not having a curve, screw, change and drop with the team coach lol

Obviously the teach coach encroached on the PI's turf here. This was your lesson time with the PI, not the time or place for what transpired.

Bill

 

[Westwind]

Totally right, Bill.

We did not foresee that happening. The middle age dude was going to tell this twenty something “kid” the errors in her ways. She was having none of it and I don’t blame her.

We didn’t know the team coach was capable of that level of disrespect. Never saw that coming.

In our case “being on the same page” probably was not a wise goal, or even an attainable goal.

 

[jacman]

Didn't say parents needed to be outsiders.
But too may voices in a kids ear doesn't help. Having a head coach come to a pitching lesson IMO is distracting and in many cases counter productive.
JMO

You make a very good point. Too many voices aren't helpful. I don't mind an HC coming to a lesson or two if they're trying to understand mechanics, or how to encourage a player on their team. If they come to more than that, I'm going to wonder what their agenda is. I don't think it takes too long to figure out what kind of coach someone is, and if their interest is truly for the player.

DD's personal instructors always had the last word. Sometimes we had a private conversation with a team coach to try and get on the same page. Sometimes you finish the season and move on.

 

[Ken Krause]

Ken, well done. My apologies for hijacking the thread!!! Not my intention but that's what happened.

Bill

No worries. It all happened organically. Thanks for educating all of us on men's fastpitch.

 

[Pizmaster]

I’m wondering if this is common or if I am making an unreasonable request?

Here is the back story: my dd used to pitch when she was in 10u and 12u. She stopped because she just didn’t have the emotional capacity to handle the pressure that position was placing on her. Fast forward 2.5 years and now she 14 playing 16u and has grown these incredibly long legs and is just tall and strong. We decided to try pitching again because some team dynamics dictated she at least try and lo and behold, it is like she never stopped. She has better mechanic now than she ever did when she was younger.

Anyway, to begin this exploration we scheduled an appointment with a local Tincher certified pitching instructor. The first lesson went well and was basically just to get her comfortable with throwing again and to see what the PI thought of her potential. The PI does do a few things different than she ever learned in the past, like keep the back foot flat on the floor and don’t bend forward before push off. Then we go to practice at her team facility and her coach shows up to practice with her and he is questioning her on why she was doing things the way this PI instructed her. He went on to having her raise her back foot, transfer weight and bend a bit at the waist before push off.

So I message the PI to set up another lesson because everyone is very positive about her potential and she honestly looks good. I tell the PI I want her coach to attend because of the small differences in lower body philosophies and how I want everyone on the same page especially since her TB coach will be working with her the most. He messages back and says he can’t allow the coach at the lesson.

So back to my original question after this long story, is that normal?

If the pitching instructor has the qualifications (references and experience) then let him/her do their job. Often time travel ball coaches have an ego (I am one but hopefully no ego. The pitching coach is a specialist in PITCHING.

One thing to remember, your travel ball coach may only be with your daughter for a couple years. The need for them is to WIN NOW as any cost. Most pitching coaches are in it for the long haul. Your daughter doesn't need to be Jenny Finch today, that will come in time. Your travel coach may want that NOW. This puts your daughter at risk by not learning the proper technique and mechanics that will last her an entire career.

 

[CoachMikeD]

I am of the opinion (based on things I have heard from people who went to Tincher instructors) that this is just a intellectual property thing. They don't want anyone else learning what they paid for and were certified to do. So it is a conflict of interest in their ability to continue to charge you. If the HC learns the things the Tincher Instructor is teaching, no need for the Tincher Instructor.

That would be sad. As Solomon once said "There's nothing new under the sun." I have often visited my pitcher's lessons and have never had a coach/instructor that did not allow that. I did it for the sole purpose of being able to support what that instructor was teaching the student as the instructor rarely comes to the games. I would give instruction too but I do not believe in a cookie cutter and I also do not believe that it's my way or the highway.

 

[Indiana Gators South]

I agree with some of the other comments. If you are paying tincher for pitching lessons let him or her do their thing they are top of the line instructors so I have heard. Hope your DD has a great and successful season