Pitching instructor won’t allow dd coach to attend lesson

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PJR

Oct 3, 2016
27
3
I'm not going to debate you or what you said, I think this was a well thought out reply. Here's my question though based off your last sentence: By what metric are you measuring "highly qualified"? College scholarships? If so, there are 10,000 pitching coaches in this country who post online all their student's scholarships as though they are the reason for that success. In your post you mentioned the Linear-Rotational hitting debates. One side think the other is crazy, just like politics in the USA. But both sides Linear and Rotational will show videos of their top students or someone who follow's their philosophy as "proof" that THEIR way is the right one. Neither side seems to see that there is both movements in top hitters. Instead, they hold fast to their platform.

Again, I don't know Mr. Tincher. I know very little about him except he had a pretty successful daughter at VA Tech. But I do know he didn't invent any of the things he's saying in pitching. Neither did I. Neither did anyone on this message board.

In this thread, a lot of people want to jump the the conclusion that the HC is there to challenge the pitching coach instead of being there to learn what to say, what to look for and how to help in games when the pitching coach is not there. If that's the HC's intent and reason, then I think it's silly to deny him based off some Intellectual property (which Tincher did NOT invent in the first place) scenario. If the coach IS there to tell this coach that he/she is wrong, Hello Elbow is correct and the PI is ruining this student, then I'd agree it shouldn't happen. But the IP thing is a very weak reason.

I'm genuinely curious, do students and parents of students have to sign some form of non-disclosure agreement to be a "Tincher student"? I'm not being a smart rear, I'm asking legitimately. If not, that raises another question I'd have.....

Bill
No there is not a non-disclosure agreement. Parents are in every lesson with our PI. I have seen coaches. I would think it is more of a quality control measure for a brand and not an IP thing. No recording the entire lesson but that was the case when I took my daughter to see Rita Lynn Gilman years ago.

If you look back at the OP t
he HC changed something the pitching coach taught at the first lesson. One might be a Monica Abbott start and the other Jennie Finch. My descriptions. They might be different methods to get to the same place. We could argue over style but a HC should not be changing what a pitching coach teaches especially after one lesson. If the HC thinks the student is in a bad place getting poor instruction than have that conversation but don't change something after one lesson.
I was also discourage by the father saying he wouldn't be the one who puts the majority of time in with his daughter that HC would. How many times does she throw outside of practice? If that is the case hire the HC as her PI.(Maybe that is what the HC wants). While I am more my daughters catcher at this point than coach I still am involved multiple hours a week and every parent should try to be as much as possible. As they hit high school it is harder but my thought is she needs to know enough at that point to go it alone.
My daughter sees her PI once every two weeks and puts in a lot or work on her own as well as working with me as her catcher. What better way to learn then to just throw and play around with the ball without someone giving mechanical adjustments on every 3rd pitch. In my opinion most parents and kids are overly dependent on their pitching instructors. How did the first person to throw windmill figure it out. I presume they had an idea and tried it out. They pitched and adjusted and pitched some more.

On some of your other questions here and in the other response
to me in this thread our instructor and Denny, who I have met are very open to questions. They encourage questions, they love being grilled and put on the hot seat. I have met numerous Tincher instructors at camps. In my opinion they are more qualified than a lot of the pitching coaches I have met. As with anything in life you are going to have great one's, good one's, average one's and bad one's. The qualified test for me is a I know it when you see it test, not just have you produced DI college pitchers. For example I could tell you understand a little about hitting when you responded hitting is both linear and rotational. I now know enough that I realize we could have a great conversation regarding hitting. They are similar discussions one can have to determine a PI knowledge and philosophy. You know the questions. Tincher instructors are required to have pitched in college with some exceptions based on experience. He would like pitchers who have gone thru the recruiting process and lived the travel/college softball lifestyle. They have game experience, life experience and recruiting experience. Tincher feels these are crucial in teaching the entire pitcher. The male instructors have either pitched in the men's game or have a background in kinesiology or something similar and have developed D1 pitchers in the past. Experience in the game and experience in the recruiting process is a focal point. There is also a strong focus on mechanics, learning and injury prevention as well as strength training. This is all on his website. Really important to me is that they are not just teaching what they were taught growing up. They are taking time to study, question everything they were taught, and perfect their craft. Continuing to grow and learn is something I want in a coach.
In addition, most Tincher instructors I have met are full time PI. They build their own business which makes them a little different in my mind.
I apologize for the Tincher advertisement but you said you were curious.
Note that despite what appears to be 'drinking the cool aid" review above I do push back all the time on style, mechanically things and drills that I think might not make my daughter better or make her better. That is my job. If my daughter is traveling 100mph in the wrong direction she will never get to where she needs to be to reach her goals. Someone needs to guide her and get her going in the right direction. Part of my job in doing that is choosing the best instructor. FYI I taught her until around the middle to end of her 12U season.
We could debate what Tincher thinks is mechanically sound and what you think is mechanically sound, but that would be a waste of time. I have watched enough of your clinics on you tube to know you are on the same page with maybe what I will call style differences. My point here is while we have chosen a Tincher instructor I realize Tincher is not the only way there is no holy grail or secret force that makes a pitcher great. It takes a good instructor and a dedicated hard working student with parents that care enough about it to invest the time. Parents need to invest enough time to get a good understanding of basic mechanics and the player needs to work hard to master the craft including mechanics and spins. In todays world it is not very difficult for parents to get an app, download a pitcher or two and put them side by side and ask why would you teach that when clearly the best in the world is doing something different. It is my view there is zero reason for parents to be uniformed in todays world. I could look up and find all of your clinics from 2011 when my daughter started pitching in 2014. In 2020 it is even easier.

Finally I think Denny and all of us realize he didn't invent pitching but he has put a different spin on it, marketed it and developed a brand. You have also developed a brand you just haven't packaged it and marketed it in the same way. Driveline Baseball has done the same thing in baseball, They didn't invent the stuff they are doing, others have been doing it for years, they didn't invent it either. Does that make Denny Tincher or Kyle Body smarter than you or Ron Wolforth , no it just puts a little more money in their pockets. Do they think they know more, maybe but than again most successful people have a little chip on their shoulder including you. While I have said there is no one way, there is no holy grail parents need to realize there is a revolution in baseball and softball training going on. This revolution is being driven by people who are challenging the way things have always been done and it is supported by data and technology. This is good and bad. In 2011 you presented still pictures of pitchers side by side, now video is available on my phone for me to put my daughter next to Monica Abbot and Cat Osterman in slow motion I am hoping this revolution puts an end to wrist flicks, underhand or overhand and bad instruction. Not all instructors who use technology are good so do your due dilligance. Slow-motion video application for smart phones, Pocket Radars, Rapsodo, Trackman, Blast sensors, Diamond Kinetics Pitcher Tracker, Rev Fire application etc...are available to parents at a reasonable cost so people can see and measure what really happens and not just take the instructors word for it. It is a little overwhelming and scary but these devises should help parents and players ask the right questions and hopefully make it easier to find qualified instructors. Every kid could have a Rev fire for something like $75. A pocket radar for $300. There should be no more "just take my word for it", and teach what I was taught.
 

PJR

Oct 3, 2016
27
3
At the top of page 9 of this thead, I already gave my mea culpa about missing that part of the OP's first message!!!

Bill
Thanks Bill. I will stop writing. I did not realize I posted these yesterday. Ignore my last post. I really enjoyed watching your stuff when my daughter first started.
 
Feb 3, 2016
502
43
I had a parent that wanted one of the coaches on our team to watch her DD at her paid pitching coach's practice.

No way. The amount of money spent with this "pitching coach" & organization in the past by this parent wasn't money well spent. I appreciate the repetitions she's getting but not going to get caught up in any of it. This pitching coach had mediocre kids at best.

Already too many people wearing caps and calling themselves pitching & hitting coaches.
I don't know if you can sue people for impersonating a coach or not but I think some people have a case.



Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
Aug 6, 2013
392
63
No there is not a non-disclosure agreement. Parents are in every lesson with our PI. I have seen coaches. I would think it is more of a quality control measure for a brand and not an IP thing. No recording the entire lesson but that was the case when I took my daughter to see Rita Lynn Gilman years ago.

If you look back at the OP t
he HC changed something the pitching coach taught at the first lesson. One might be a Monica Abbott start and the other Jennie Finch. My descriptions. They might be different methods to get to the same place. We could argue over style but a HC should not be changing what a pitching coach teaches especially after one lesson. If the HC thinks the student is in a bad place getting poor instruction than have that conversation but don't change something after one lesson.
I was also discourage by the father saying he wouldn't be the one who puts the majority of time in with his daughter that HC would. How many times does she throw outside of practice? If that is the case hire the HC as her PI.(Maybe that is what the HC wants). While I am more my daughters catcher at this point than coach I still am involved multiple hours a week and every parent should try to be as much as possible. As they hit high school it is harder but my thought is she needs to know enough at that point to go it alone.
My daughter sees her PI once every two weeks and puts in a lot or work on her own as well as working with me as her catcher. What better way to learn then to just throw and play around with the ball without someone giving mechanical adjustments on every 3rd pitch. In my opinion most parents and kids are overly dependent on their pitching instructors. How did the first person to throw windmill figure it out. I presume they had an idea and tried it out. They pitched and adjusted and pitched some more.

First - I’m the mother.

Second - I said the HC will be working with my dd the most other than myself which is why I wanted him to attend.

I truly believe that differing opinions about her style led to her breakdown a few years ago. She was also a lot younger and more emotionally immature of course. I want everyone on the same page - period. No possibility of repeats of history.

I do work with DD multiple nights a week on her pitching, hitting and even her defense. She is in HS though and doing off season workouts until tryouts next month. She is also going to her TB practices 3 days a week...... doesn’t leave much time for mom/daughter time but we fit it in when we can.
 

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