Pitching Absolutes

[starsnuffer]

The pitchers generally aren't interested in the details, and they're even less interested in hearing about them from their parents. So, understanding all of this, unless you're a pitcher or a pitching instructor, has very limited value beyond being able to "talk shop' to other parents who can't share this info with their kids.

It WOULD be helpful if more fastpitch coaches understood this, but that would go hand in hand with understanding when to keep their mouths shut about it. . . which is more difficult.

-W

 

[Rocketech1]

The pitchers generally aren't interested in the details, and they're even less interested in hearing about them from their parents. So, understanding all of this, unless you're a pitcher or a pitching instructor, has very limited value beyond being able to "talk shop' to other parents who can't share this info with their kids.

It WOULD be helpful if more fastpitch coaches understood this, but that would go hand in hand with understanding when to keep their mouths shut about it. . . which is more difficult.

-W

I understand what you are saying but most of what is posted above is not rocket science and can be relatively easy to explain. I think we parents don't give our kids enough credit for what they can and do absorb. For example, I think its important to show them the correct arm position at each stage of the arm circle and how it contributes to arm whip. While I'm not going to have my 12U DD read BM's Internal Rotation thread, I have held my arm out and rotated the hand 180 degrees, backwards and forwards quickly until it blurs, and explained to her how this action is one of the fastest in the body and contributes to the speed of the pitch. If someone is spending 3x a week practicing pitching, don't you think its important to try to explain to them, at least in lay man's terms, what they are trying to accomplish and how to do it?

 

[starsnuffer]

I understand what you are saying but most of what is posted above is not rocket science and can be relatively easy to explain. I think we parents don't give our kids enough credit for what they can and do absorb. For example, I think its important to show them the correct arm position at each stage of the arm circle and how it contributes to arm whip. While I'm not going to have my 12U DD read BM's Internal Rotation thread, I have held my arm out and rotated the hand 180 degrees, backwards and forwards quickly until it blurs, and explained to her how this action is one of the fastest in the body and contributes to the speed of the pitch. If someone is spending 3x a week practicing pitching, don't you think its important to try to explain to them, at least in lay man's terms, what they are trying to accomplish and how to do it?

It is important that they learn everything that you mentioned. And as you said, they are absolutely capable of absorbing the information.

What I disagree with is a parent showing them what they learned on the internet. Think about it for a moment and put yourself in the pitchers shoes. You're an athlete practicing hours and hours a week trying to be as good as you can at a very difficult skill. An adult that you respect for providing you food, love, and sanctuary comes to you and says, "Hey honey, let me show you what I learned on the internet and how it's right and what you're doing is wrong". That might not be the way a parent puts it, but that's generally how a kid will hear it.

Information is power, use it responsibly. You're just as likely to have the pitcher reject everything you say on sheer general principle as you are to get them to accept it. I've seen more kids struggle because they're fighting what the parent is saying then they struggle because they don't understand it.

-W

 

[CoachFP]

If you want to know how much detail a player knows have them become an instructor. We had a camp and my pitchers were part of the pitching portion of things. Listening to them explain what needed to be done to throw a pitch properly sounded like it came from me. I didn't have to do much, they ran the lesson. The kids and their parents were pleased.

 

[starsnuffer]

If you want to know how much detail a player knows have them become an instructor. We had a camp and my pitchers were part of the pitching portion of things. Listening to them explain what needed to be done to throw a pitch properly sounded like it came from me. I didn't have to do much, they ran the lesson. The kids and their parents were pleased.

That's a great point. My oldest worked a camp for the first time last year. She was the only HS kid there, all of the other instructors/counselers were current and former D1/D2 players. On the first day she came home and said something to the tune of "I never realized how detailed everything was. Just explaining and showing load through connection I learned so much". The same was true of the pitching instruction. Many of them don't realize how much data and information is in each step until they have to explain it. . . but then again, until they have to explain it, there is no need for them to realize how much information is there, so long as they're doing it correctly. Being a mechanics nerd is great, but it's also very easy for a player to over analyze things and achieve that paralysis through analysis that RB mentioned.

-W

 

[Rick Pauly]

Rocketech
To an earlier post......absolutes may be to hard of a line to draw. There might be a better description of what this thread is intended to do. I do believe this will be very valuable material for most who read this site. Kind of a condensed version of pitching mechanics.......I used to love "Cliff Notes" in college.

 

[WaSpeed02]

What I disagree with is a parent showing them what they learned on the internet. Think about it for a moment and put yourself in the pitchers shoes. You're an athlete practicing hours and hours a week trying to be as good as you can at a very difficult skill. An adult that you respect for providing you food, love, and sanctuary comes to you and says, "Hey honey, let me show you what I learned on the internet and how it's right and what you're doing is wrong". That might not be the way a parent puts it, but that's generally how a kid will hear it.


-W

I think you are making a valid point, however, there are parents who are exceptions to this generalization. I can think of several here at DFP who teach their DD's themselves and do a fine job of it. There are also people who for whatever reason do not have the luxury of a pitching coach for their DD, so their primary source of information is the internet. I'm one of those people. I started out in 2009 teaching my DD the basics of the windup myself. She did well in rec ball, in spite of having her dad as her coach. She's a quick learner and a good athlete. When she got recruited by a TB team in 2011-12, I realized I would have to get her a PC. We went through them like water. (3 in less than 1 year). Every one of them tried to reverse her I/R and go HE. It bothered me, but I kept quiet. My DD didn't. She hated being told to finish with the elbow. She said it didn't feel right and it caused her a LOT of frustration and lack of confidence. She told me she feels more comfortable doing the drills that we work on, which are all taught right here at DFP. So I resolved in my mind to never get her another PC that didn't already agree with the mechanics of I/R she is using (or that general concept, regardless of what people call it.) I really do hope that I find a PC that fits the bill in this area, but let me tell you, they are sparse. So I'm sort of stuck doing it myself. Luckily for me, my DD is a good kid and doesn't mind me coaching her at all. I'm just hoping I find a PC before she becomes a teenager (that point in time where parents cease knowing anything).

Anyway, I guess my point is that parents who are responsibly coaching their DD's from the bucket shouldn't have to feel guilty. As long as DD's are listening, and you are a student of pitching yourself, then do the best you can. It's not going to be the end of the world.

 

[javasource]

My original response to the original post was going to say: There are very few, if any, absolutes. However, I really like the idea of people trying to put it together. As far as information offered to a pitcher (or any player, for that matter), there are far too many variables involved to put a rule on that, either. If I had to lean one way, I'd say they are far more capable than many perceive them.

When I first started coaching softball, I did so in response to the disappointment I witnessed in the players when they'd go to tournaments and play two games and then go home. THEY wanted more. They wanted to be like the other teams. But... the people that ran the league were concerned about their little girls... using the excuses: "we're just a small town", "they are just girls", "it's not like baseball". All the effort and money went into the boys program. It wasn't that the players were incapable, it's that the parents were. I took that league over. Four years later, our small rec team won every tournament, and finished 3rd in a B level tournament, comprised of 16 TB teams, and only one rec team - ours. Oh yeah, we scrimmaged the boys baseball team, and kicked their a$$e$, too.

The point in that story is that, if you hold a kid back, you're doing just that.

The best questions you'll be asked come from players. In order for a player to speak up and ask a question - they trust that you'll give them the right answer. If you're involved at any level of coaching - and you're not getting asked in-depth questions... than honestly... is it them, or you? And... when they do ask an in-depth question - should your response encourage thought, or shut it down? I choose the former, and as such - always give them an in-depth answer.

Furthermore... what's worse than a kid asking a question that demands an answer - and you don't know? I'd say the answer to that question is what I hear the most from adults; the wrong answer.

So, kudos to all you parents, coaches, fanatics, and PC's looking further into the "why and how" - and demanding better information. This site can provide quality information, and often does. It's your job - as a mentor - to sift through it, as much as you can take - so that you pass on the right answer.

Lastly, to dismiss an in-depth understanding of this game (not pointing ANY fingers), is insulting to those that participate in it. If you think that top-tier teams aren't familiar with the EXTREME details... well, you're probably a spectator, and probably on the losing side.

 

[Rick Pauly]

Courious question: If the best golfer in the world needs a swing coach who views every shot he makes and gives feedback, why would a young pitcher not need some feedback?

 

[FastPitchCat]

this is a good list, but if i had my DD read this i'd get the eye roll .
i share rubberbiscuit's experience. i've been telling DD a ton of things and that became detrimental so i narrowed it down to a size that a typical 12 year-old can digest. my first list contained 8 key points, then i further trimmed it down to the basic 4.


1. pivot foot push off and drive straight (ending knee to back knee of stride leg.)
2. stride foot landing at 45 deg and no-lift
3. glove hand to direction to catcher

and the most important

4. arm circle - pitching arm slightly bent, palm up at 9 o'clock and whip it!

IMHO, with these basic points in mind, everything else will fall into place.


YMMV