- May 3, 2014
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Maybe I have the terminology wrong. Drive hip is drive foot hip - right hip for RH pitcher
Maybe I have the terminology wrong. Drive hip is drive foot hip - right hip for RH pitcher
To be honest I have used both.
One move generates all of the above!!! BTW it's not even a movement for crying out loud, you just simply resist turning forward. It is ridiculously simple and generates picture perfect results. It does not discount core strength, core strength is a huge supplement to it. Geez, I feel like an infomercial...
I feel your pain! Boardmember, javasource, FrozenRope, Out in Left Field and many others have struggled with my way of learning and describing what I think. I keep at it... I study, I read, I listen and most important, I practically test almost everything to find the feel connection. It makes communicating with my kids move so much faster... I'm far from where I want to be, but really appreciate these conversations that challenge what I think and feel. My kids are the benefactors and I can't begin to express how thankful I am for this site. We've lost SO MANY great contributors and although I understand why they've moved on, I really miss their input and hope they find the time to stop by now and then to share their experience and perspective.
I know that the concepts that I have posted over the last couple years challenges the norm. I hope that instead of running people off, it instead causes them to pause and consider.
Overlap = Hips rotating forward ahead of the upper body.
...our concern was more on the girls having wider hips and driving the rear hip could possible damage her shoulder.
... resist the front side so strongly that the hips have no choice but to follow the angle of the front foot. This will create an involuntary hip snap, that must be stopped at an appropriate ... angle.
One thing to be clear on....the hip rotation stops at about 45 degrees just prior to the arm entering the release zone and remains stopped until after release.
Being honest, teaching the overlap in pitching is VERY HARD . I beleive that most athletes who do "overlap" do so automatically as part of their bodies physiology not because of anything they were taught.
...Java questioned Rick in a thread somewhere about this as well and that teaching this or bringing this up in younger girls may not be a good thing.
I would call that a lead/lag... or chained/sequential movements... they are not opposing/overlapping movements... just sequential.Overlap = Hips rotating forward ahead of the upper body.
...the true form of overlap happens automatically as a byproduct of pulling back against a coiled rear hip. It is independent of the feet interacting with the ground.
I appreciate how you're trying to marry all of these concepts, J... but that, my friend is not overlap.
On a sidenote, I really wish we could stop trying to link overhand throwing & hitting to pitching. Although it may feel comfortable... and although there are definitely some similar movement patterns... these topics are fire and ice, relatively speaking.
In hitting, learning to swing a bat... BLATANTLY changes the inertial characteristics of the arm and the hand... comparative to pitching. They are not even close.
I could liken underhand pitching to ballet... or shoveling manure... heck, probably even bartending if I really wanted to, but the more I try and reach for "similarities" the more diluted the context of 'overlap IN SOFTBALL PITCHING' becomes, as this thread is completely highlighting.
Not hating on anyone... so don't get all caught up in those last few lines... but just recognize that what you all are talking about in regards to "the hips" is not overlap.
Overlap IS NOT elastic energy (stretch shortening)... nor is it ballistic energy... nor is it simple sequencing. They can be related and part of... no doubt, but are not the same.
A one-legged golfer... a throw from the outfield... J swinging a bat in his living room (nice place, btw)... are all examples of creating elastic energy via stretch.
Although I'm a "walnut-cracker" at heart - and J knows this... the rear is but a piece... not the solution to any of this hip stuff. ABout the same advice I gave my son as he journied off to college.
I disagree. Teaching someone algebra is quite difficult if they haven't mastered addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division... right?
Most look at movement as effort... or activation. Same thing with stabilization. Stability is not just strength... it's about effortless timing & recruitment. DE-activating muscles is a higher order skill than activating... and where true movement mastery takes place.
You see a glute-activated movement. Truth is... you ask most of the people in all these gifs how they learned that move... and they'll not have a clue. Not because they can't participate in the conversation... but because they didn't train to "activate". Instead... at some point... the timing of their pitching movements became so natural for them... that they ADAPTED their movement strategy unconsciously.
If, however... you view turning the foot externally just prior to plant as a non-teach... how is it so easily achieved when teaching someone to throw overhand? Loaded question, btw...
Some of this stuff is not a direct-teach... absolutely. However... proper timing, deactivation, and pitching coordination IS a learned response. Overlap (as I describe it) is very teachable... and as such should be very repeatable... once correct. Some kids, however... don't benefit from it... as their body awareness is so poor, that limiting these movements can be the best interim solution (like a backswing...).
I would call that a lead/lag... or chained/sequential movements... they are not opposing/overlapping movements... just sequential.
You're saying that the hip is coiled? What's providing the resistance for the coil... as the athlete is not directly interacting with the ground? Dude... I'm really struggling with this one...
Hoist yourself off the ground... and while freely suspended, change movement planes (sagittal to lateral)... then coil your right hip...
It ain't happening my good man...
You see a glute-activated movement. Truth is... you ask most of the people in all these gifs how they learned that move... and they'll not have a clue. Not because they can't participate in the conversation... but because they didn't train to "activate". Instead... at some point... the timing of their pitching movements became so natural for them... that they ADAPTED their movement strategy unconsciously.