Pitchers hips?

[Buttermaker]

Don't disagree Ken. Abbott's style and Ueno's style are different. But, both use their core. I remember seeing Abbott throwing pitches while on her knees on an exercise ball.

 

[Ken B]

I remember seeing Abbott throwing pitches while on her knees on an exercise ball.

I love that clip. (Don't try this... Just saying! I just tried it again--not as funny as the last time!)

 

[Ken B]

In hitting, I can feel the bat and use the limbs to connect to the core and ground, combined with sequence, to throw it through the ball.

 

[Ken B]

Butter! Thank you for the reminder about Abbott and the ball! I went back to the ball and tried balancing using just core. Although I was able to do it with just core and legs, I added the arms and found it even easier. This got me to thinking about walking on a handrail or slack line. Can't do it without the arms. Add a pole and it becomes even easier. Not sure if that helps or hurts what I'm trying to say, but it's the closest I've come up with so far.

 

[Buttermaker]

In hitting, I can feel the bat and use the limbs to connect to the core and ground, combined with sequence, to throw it through the ball.

Donaldson comes to mind. Bonds was so strong (PED's?) that he could just torque his core and swing whenever he wanted to.

 

[Ken B]

That swing reminds me of what jryan was demoing.

 

[Buttermaker]

Butter! Thank you for the reminder about Abbott and the ball! I went back to the ball and tried balancing using just core. Although I was able to do it with just core and legs, I added the arms and found it even easier. This got me to thinking about walking on a handrail or slack line. Can't do it without the arms. Add a pole and it becomes even easier. Not sure if that helps or hurts what I'm trying to say, but it's the closest I've come up with so far.

Outriggers spread out the balance.

 

[Buttermaker]

In hitting, I can feel the bat and use the limbs to connect to the core and ground, combined with sequence, to throw it through the ball.

So, this is sort of the crossroads. Some feel the arms or hands trigger the core while other feel the core triggers the hands/barrel. To be honest I have used both. Whatever helps the hitter get better as long as the initial barrel path is consistent with the arm circle in windmill from 12 to 10ish and not flat like a merry go round from the start.

 

[jryan15]

I do not think that Ueno has taught herself to torque her core like this in midair... I also think the fact that she is turning without her feet on the ground breaks the theory that a ground connection is required to achieve the movement.

The next idea up is "core torque". I do beleive that core strength is a huge contributor to the power all high level athletes produce. I'll say again HUGE! However I do not think that using core torque alone will produce a laces down rear foot. For that, rear leg IR is required. Try it. Torque your core and see what happens with your rear leg and foot. To get full laces down you would have to core torque and also rear leg IR... BTW this is very ackward to do.

Also most of the rear leg IR happens with the rear leg moderately unweighted, why would an anthlete even bother IR'ing? If your rear leg isn't coiled, what purpose does rear leg IR serve? If the core torque is generating hip turn, why IR the rear leg at all? Or maybe, just maybe, the rear leg is BEING IR'd and not IR'ing itself.

I've read a lot of posts that are calling for a front side move plus a hips move plus a rear leg move plus all the throwing arm / locating / spin actions that a pitcher is using. I personally think this is too many un-connected movements to syncronize perfectly in a split second.


Why are so many people so quick to discount the simplicity of the pullback mechanism that I have described? That single action of pullingback against a coiled rear leg will generate all of the movements above and more (overlap + front side hip movement + rear hip movement + hip torque + rear leg IR (laces down) + plus it's free since you're already moving your arm). It also has the added benefit of actively discouraging shoulder rotation since if you rotate them, you break the pullback.

One move generates all of the above!!! BTW it's not even a movement for crying out loud, you just simply resist turning forward. It is ridiculously simple and generates picture perfect results. It does not discount core strength, core strength is a huge supplement to it. Geez, I feel like an infomercial...

 

[jryan15]

Reverse engineering from the core torque is then the goal. Tendons and fascia play a huge role. Muscles are only capable of so much - ever see a gazelle leap and bound? Their muscle system cannot even come close to the heights and lengths they get. Kangaroos same thing. Tendons and fascia store the elastic energy.

Ever wonder why a slightly built Pedro Martinez could throw in the 90's? Or Yukiko Ueno could hit 70?

I like what you are saying about tendons and fascia. I have a theory that the glute / foot tendon issue that I discuss in this thread is a primary contributor to lack of core strength. I think that a broken glute connection might drastically affect your ability to develop core strength.

I don't think the amazing athletes of the 50's and before spent much time with yoga and exercise balls. I think they had excellent glute linkages and developed a strong core around it. If you listen to the students of Chong Xie, you will see many examples of his athletes experiencing sore abs as they continue to use HA.

So, when you core torque (with a direction in mind) your glove arm quickly adducts which helps pull the drive hip forward via your fascia system. Could you do this without a core torque? Probably, but you would be leaving a whole bunch of energy out of the movement. Watch her belt loops and her throwing arm. Overlap. Arm going 12 to 6 as belt loops turn forward.

I may not be understanding, but I think if you torque the hips, your front hip is going to want to pull back not go forward.