O'Leary, Cshilt,Wellphyt,FiveFrameSwing, other hitting "experts"

[theaddition]

FYI, I have found that the phrase "attack the ball" can cause some major problems in the swing, including disconnection.

I asked that because it's not the launch position IMHO.
The launch position to me is that point in the swing at which a check swing is impossible.
The it's the point in time where the hitter recognizes that they must hit the incoming pitch.
The photos posted show the hitters in a position in which they could check their swing.

 

[cshilt]

What happens at the launch position?

The batter transitions to the bat lag position by making a good first move and stacking the rear elbow, hopefully while maintaining connection. The rear elbow must be able to clear the body. We don't want it to touch the body, not do we want it too far away. Hopefully you can see the space in these pictures of AP.



From bat lag we release the wrists and barrel to contact.

 

[cshilt]

The photos posted show the hitters in a position in which they could check their swing.

Even at the bat lag position the hitter can "put the brakes on" by clenching the hands into fists around the handle of the bat and attempting to stop the forward momentum. Essentially that feeling of clenching the fists is what the hitter should "feel".

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

Very well said.

I do not consider myself a hitting expert. I am a Dad and coach who has a passion for hitting. My philosophy is based on my belief that whatever I teach has to match slow motion video of the best hitters in baseball. As well as my belief that the FP swing should be the same as the baseball swing. I believe that the same physics that apply to hitting a baseball, apply to hitting a softball and that the absolutes that make the baseball swing efficient, also apply to FP.

My advice is to take anything anyone says about the swing and compare it to slow motion video of the best. Which means it's real important to get good at analyzing video clips, and recognizing the difference between style and technique.

Thank you to Cshilt, Livingontheroad, Towson for actually responding to my original post wanting to know what hitting technique you teach.

Wellphyt - your post above isn't very specific, if I can paraphrase: "emulate MLB hitter's swings and the softball swing mechanics are the same as baseball"

What I teach to my young players (8 & 9 YOs) is the following that I have customized over the last couple of years from books, watching high level softball/baseball games, talking to other coaches, reading this forum, and trial and error from practices and games. Feel free to disagree or add comments:

a) feet apart about shoulder width, knees slightly bent in athletic postion, weight is evenly distibuted on both feet or 60/40 with 60 on the back foot
b) bottom hand all the way to knob, medium to light grip with hands together with handle across the fingers (not deep in the palm)
c) bat slightly off of shoulder, angled 45%, with separation between the two elbows creating an inverted "V"
d) slight upper body tilt towards home plate
e) head up facing forward with both eyes ready to track ball
f) at ball release, hips start the swing with the goal to have the belly button facing pitcher at impact to encourage hip rotation
g) when hips "fire", the upper body immediately follows with hands inside the ball and weight shifts a little forward
h) the swing plane will be slightly angled up with the goal to impact the ball just below its centerline to promote line drives, if done correctly
i) the finish will be "natural" not forced as the bat wraps around the upper body, hands out away from body

Lastly, I like the players to get everything out of the swing, call it "attacking the ball" or being aggressive, etc.

 

[Cannonball]

Hi,

Since you guys post a lot of information on this technical hitting site and seem to have strong opinions, with very different views on how to produce an optimal fastpitch swing, I think it would be helpful to all of us if we could better understand what the key differences and similarities are between your hitting philosophies/techniques so when we read your past and future posts we know your core beliefs on hitting and where you are coming from? Currently, it is difficult for the casual reader who is trying to better understand hitting to take away information that is useful and easily applicable to their DD's own hitting technique. So to summarize, I am looking for you to explain your approach to hitting fundamentals and how it might differ from the other hitting experts.

Any takers?

First beware of anyone who contends that they have it all figured out. Also, beware of those offering criticism alone. YOU DO REALIZE THAT SOME EXPERTS WILL NEVER BE TIED DOWN TO WHAT THEY REALLY BELIEVE, WHAT THEY TEACH NOR HOW THEY TEACH IT. To be sure you have some on here that really work with hitters. That’s always preferred, IMO, to those that don’t. Most recently I’ve been getting a kick out of all of the terms and explanations. For example, one’s term of “coil” is another’s term of “setting posture.” Identical video is used. One talks about lead shoulder and blocking while another talks about burying the chin in to the deltoid. IMO, much of the change in terms is based upon various “school” agendas.

While I certainly wasn’t and won’t be included in a list of “experts,” I will add my two cents. I believe in PCR PER THE DEFINITION OF PAUL NYMANN. In other words not the agenda laden attacks by others concerning PCR who not only are clueless as to what is really taught but who also have a hate filled agendas. In coaching hitters including my child, I don’t object to many beliefs held by other camps. My goal is to try to have my child match Posture, Connections and Rotation as measured by MLB players. I know that she is genetically and athletically limited and so we won’t claim that she has a MLB swing. We do ascribe to the notion that she and my other players can have a high level swing. Some concepts presented by Epstein, Howard Carrier, Board Member, etc not only are not in conflict with what I teach but also enhance it. Very briefly:
My hitters can have active hands in terms of pulling the bow back, creating a “bump” or a “large C.”
I like to teach “heel toe” for my child as a loading action like Pujols. (Note, not the “heel toe” action of Hudgens although I don’t have a problem with Hudgen’s remarks on the action.) The phrase “the move” has come in to vogue on some sites recently. This is approximate to the notion of sitting on the inside part of the knee and the subsequent ankle action, hip rotation, etc. IMO of what I’ve taught. Note, my child still is not proficient in this action. I could go on and on.
I’ll wrap by saying that mechanics are only one part of the formula. Hitters have to also be proficient at decision making and then have the ability to react. Some of that, IMO, is genetic.

 

[lawdawg]

The batter transitions to the bat lag position by making a good first move and stacking the rear elbow, hopefully while maintaining connection. The rear elbow must be able to clear the body. We don't want it to touch the body, not do we want it too far away. Hopefully you can see the space in these pictures of AP.

View attachment 698View attachment 699

From bat lag we release the wrists and barrel to contact.

What is your best guess as to what will be AP's weight distribution front to back at point of contact with the ball in this photo?

 

[cshilt]

What is your best guess as to what will be AP's weight distribution front to back at point of contact with the ball in this photo?

We like to stay balanced somewhat and avoid big weight shifts. So if we're 50/50 in the stance, we might go to 60/40 during the negative move, to 40/60 at contact. I believe that the actual percentages were measured with the Olympic hitters. I don't have access to that data, but I know who to ask...

 

[theaddition]

Even at the bat lag position the hitter can "put the brakes on" by clenching the hands into fists around the handle of the bat and attempting to stop the forward momentum. Essentially that feeling of clenching the fists is what the hitter should "feel".

Imo the brakes are applied well before the lag position to check the swing.
There is no way any hitter could check their swing from the bat lag position.

BD

 

[cshilt]

Imo the brakes are applied well before the lag position to check the swing.
There is no way any hitter could check their swing from the bat lag position.

BD

Correct. I was probably not as clear as I should have been. It is possible to start the swing (launch) and stop it in what looks like the bat lag position by putting the brakes on.

The actual bat lag position is a transition from launch to contact.

Of course that all depends on your definition of the terms.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Even at the bat lag position the hitter can "put the brakes on" by clenching the hands into fists around the handle of the bat and attempting to stop the forward momentum. Essentially that feeling of clenching the fists is what the hitter should "feel".

Another, IMO more important, key to putting on the brakes is to not let the hands turn the corner (aka no curved hand path). Instead, the hands move linearly forward, which helps prevent the wrists from releasing.

Of course, you have to question the logic of linear hitting if a linear hand path is how good hitters stop their swings.