Lower Body

[lhowser]

Yes.

Though answering the question is like you leading the witness. Without more info from the waist up it is difficult to say anything diffinitavely.

I would be happy however with a young player getting off of their back side without getting over their front side and turning vs swiveling.

 

[RayR]

@Phreak, I agree the sequence is not correct yet - but is better.

@lhowser - yes leading a bit - just trying to illustrate that if you buy into barrel turning it helps clean up the overall mechanics. Can't do this by locking down parts - it doesn't help the overall swing.

Here is the full clip.

Things I wanted to point out were that:

1 - her lower body is regulating itself - shifting better - and not lunging
2- although she is still trapping and dumping the barrel - she is turning the barrel more from behind her - there is not a sudden late adjustment with the hands
3- she is extending through the zone - a good sign that the barrel turning is starting upstream- in the zone earlier and staying there - so the swing plane is getting better
4 - at contact she is behind her front leg
5 - at contact her rear shoulder is driving through - although it could be better
6- from heel plant to and through contact her head is pretty much in the same place - balance
7 - the pivot point for the barrel turning is getting deeper (towards the rear shoulder instead of out in front)


I included this clip at lag position to point out that although she starts off very trapped by lag she is not in a bad position bat to shoulder rotation - meaning 2 things

1- she can still drive her rear shoulder through contact
2- the barrel must be turning behind her to catch up that quick - she applying hand pressue to turn the barrel.

If she can keep the hands tighter - which starts upstream - she will really see some major improvement in her ball striking. Her front arm would show more bend and she would be driving though the ball even better. IMO - she is not applying hand pressure quite early enough - no loading yet. She can load the rear shoulder/scap using the same hand pressure while bringing the hands back. Right now she is still using her shoulders too much.

We are going to address the barrel angle at the start, tighter hands and work on loading the lower body at the same time.

Here is one of my main points in all of this - it doesn't have to be as hard as we make it out to be. There are literally thousands of drills out there - most contradict eachother.

I ask my girls what is the goal here - to hit the ball, they answer. Right - what part of the bat hits the ball? The barrel. Right.

So, you could train using knob to the ball mechanics, rotational mechanics (spend a lot of time on turning body parts) or barrel to ball mechanics.

My lab experiments have proven to me that barrel to ball mechanics clean up the overall swing and get results quickly. Puts smiles on kids faces. Then we can fine tune without losing sight of the barrel to ball goal...

In a weird way I have O'Leary to thank. I have been down the path of deltoid drills and thinking that learning how to power the swing with the core was the right way to go...it didn't help bring the barrel around on plane and from behind as I see Bustos, Benji, Mendoza, et al do.

It made me rethink my approach and figure out what they do. It made me bring the hands back into play - experiment with grip pressures and wrist articulations and video myself and my players.

TomG and FFS have helped as well - TomG - although I don't understand most of what you write - the whole scap thing finally sank in. Lynn Blake is pretty awesome. Makes me want to make time to golf more in 2011...

FFS provides a ton of video support even though I have yet to see one of his players - wink. But, I believe he is doing from a good place...

Tewks got me started thinking seriously about the barrel to ball - at first I thought - no shirt - but it put other things in order.

Howard has given me great insight into how females/males differ and I love the grip. His info put into perspective the idea of hammering into the ball and what kind of wrist articulations are needed.

Boardmember and his secret in the dirt is my next course. We may disgree on what should be taught first - but I respect his opinion and may think otherwise someday...

Although 4for4 doesn't post here - he and I exchange all kinds of ideas and I get to see the progress of his kids and players and what he used as an approach...

I know I left others out - but everyone's feedback helps.

In the end I don't really care what others teach - I just want to help my girls hit better...this board allows me to flesh out ideas and get feedback from all angles...

Thanks for that.

I am going to try and provide more info on what I think works and provide some video as well. If you don't agree you don't have to use it. And please remember that although the girl above seemed to have that AHA! moment in a couple of swings - I have other girls it takes longer for. Some just start hitting better without having the AHA! moment. Others are still trying to grasp it as they cannot abandon their old mechanics.

Mostly - what I see is that knob to the ball (or knob inside the path of the ball), rotational and barrel to the ball contradict eachother.

Happy Holidays!

 

[Chris O'Leary]

just trying to illustrate that if you buy into barrel turning it helps clean up the overall mechanics. Can't do this by locking down parts - it doesn't help the overall swing.

Here is the full clip.

This is the same basic back arm dominant bat drag swing as in my son's before clip.

The only difference is that the girl is stronger so the bat drag is closer to borderline.

 

[RichK]

There are a lot of good things here, MTS, I agree. The flat (and then at stride wrapped) barrel set I think causes some of the plane problems (as you mention as well) and would make her swing a bit long and slow against live pitching. FFS has posted videos of barrel tip in a rearward C (and I think you've posted the Nike swoosh as well. By flattening and wrapping her bat, it seems, despite all the other good things she is doing her barrel tip travels in a "straight line".

I've enjoyed you sharing your work, tks.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

We are going to address the barrel angle at the start, tighter hands and work on loading the lower body at the same time.

I'd appreciate you sharing how this works out. Getting someone to move from a built-in tendency of launching the barrel from a flat barrel position isn't always easy. Hearing what works for this lady, and what doesn't work, would be appreciated.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

I don't think this swing is fundamentally solid or better.

I'm not a fan of the droopy/level bat set up (Frame 40).

You can also see that the bat drag is still there (Frame 55).

I doubt if this swing would look great against a lower pitch.

 

[tom.guerry]

MTS -

excellent thinking/work/approach.

I would recommend you visit tewks at his facility and/or vice versa.

 

[BoardMember]

MTS -

excellent thinking/work/approach.

I would recommend you visit tewks at his facility and/or vice versa.

Ray.....Do you believe in some form of torque or pressure to turn the barrel?..........

 

[redzuk]

Here is one of my main points in all of this - it doesn't have to be as hard as we make it out to be. There are literally thousands of drills out there - most contradict eachother.

Any drill can be bad, thats important for us that dont work with kids everyday, dont want to make things worse. The deltoid drill could be bad, probably more bad than good for this girl, she may have already learned it and used it to get this far.

While it's not terrible, she cuts her lower body short.

She looks like she lunges, so I wonder if the root cause is that this is a top-down swing.

Thats blunt and to the point, it seems about right. Not sure about lunging, but it looks "top down", back arm dominant. She need to get some separation instead of pulling the bat down, she could do it by using the lower body better, hips first. At connection point the hands appear to be in good position, its more how they got there. Maybe this is what BD was talking about;

I find that telling young hitters to keep their hands back is easier said than done.
In fact, IMO, it is the most difficult thing to teach a young hitter. By far.
One battle I fight with kids is actually with their parents or other coaches.
That is, most tell their hitters to tone down the pre-swing movement.
This in most cases leads to the young hitter separating when they load the backside rather than
during the stride/weight shift forward.
Separating the with the load most always leads to the hands coming forward with the stride/weight shift. And in most cases, the back elbow tucks down during the stride/weight shift.
What do Bustos, Cochran, Flores, Yee, during this phase of the swing?
They are all different.
IMO the key to keeping the hands back and getting separation what is done during the backside load.
Coaches shouldn't cookie cutter young hitters as they load/stride (weight shift).

BD

The lower body looks good, its the manor in which she gets the upper body "on the train" is where i see she still needs an aha moment. They do need to find their own style in that phase of the swing, I agree with that.

How they set the swing plain, thats where the action of connection starts, that was kind of an aha moment for me, and I got it from you can Chris going back and forth. The overhead view of Bonds, whether you call it turning the barrel or setting the swing plane, same action. Chris described it as dropping the bat into the swing plane. Hands are free until then, and then fused, tied, hinged whatever, until connection.

 

[BoardMember]

The lower body must support the upper body/hands..........It's pretty obvious you know that......

These 2 lower body/upper body sequences are MILES apart........