Strength training vs Pitching reps

[TJ Y]

Hi all,
First post for me so if this has been a repetitive question, Apologies in advance. My DD just finished her first year of U13 travel ball. First, what a jump from U11 to U13. Wow.

She's always been eager to put in time pitching trying to get better and more accurate. We see a pitching coach here regularly, attend a pitching clinic in the winter time as well as work between the 2 of us a few times a week. She's got a good fastball and worked really hard throughout the year to establish a usable change up which has been effective. Could always be more accurate day to day but that's 11-12 year olds for yah.

My question. What do you consider more important at this age. Pitching reps vs strength training. I only ask as I believe she's at a point where she's getting almost all she can out of her slender frame. She's not short or small by any means but forsure slender. She's eager to gain more speed and more control of her pitches which I believe more strength would be beneficial than pitching reps but I honestly am not sure.

My initial plan is to do mostly band and body weight work 2 to 3 times a week for the next few months to gain strength before starting up with more pitching reps. Focus would be on leg, core and arm strength. With soccer upcoming and the Canadian winters, meaningful mound time is limited.

What would you put more emphasis on between the two topics posted above and why



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[GunnerShotgun]

If your daughter is at least average for her peer group in strength training and agility I would focus on pitching (long toss, mechanics, over/under training) tasks that correlate to speed.

I am not saying to neglect speed and agility as they may have an affect on stamina and injury prevention, which is great for pitching overall but will not get you to the increase in velocity you are looking for.

It sounds great, "be more explosive off the mound!", "increase your core strength to get more strikeouts!".....ummm yeah.

Not trying to be the best at exercise. Trying to be a great pitcher!

 

[sluggers]

She's not short or small by any means but for sure slender. She's eager to gain more speed and more control of her pitches which I believe more strength would be beneficial than pitching reps but I honestly am not sure.

*sigh*

The only way to get really good at pitching is to practice, practice, practice.

Your DD has to throw 100,000 pitches to be "good." No amount of strength training, agility training, running, meditation, sport therapy, or magical incantations can take the place of 100,000 pitches. (Read "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell.)

So, first things first. What is your plan to get her to 100,000 pitches?

 

[TJ Y]

*sigh*

The only way to get really good at pitching is to practice, practice, practice.

Your DD has to throw 100,000 pitches to be "good." No amount of strength training, agility training, running, meditation, sport therapy, or magical incantations can take the place of 100,000 pitches. (Read "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell.)

So, first things first. What is your plan to get her to 100,000 pitches?

Sigh? Really? Is this not a message board for questions?

And I disagree. 100,000 of anything can be detrimental if you're not doing it right. Simply throwing balls will not necessarily translate to getting better if your mechanics, form and strength and condition is not there. You'll simply be grooving a mechanically flawed pitch. Much like you see at a golf driving range. 99% of people hitting 1000s of balls and yet almost all recreational golfers still suck.

DD has a pitching coach, pitches regularly, wants to get better and drags me out. We plan to go our regularly 3 to 4 times a week although she does play other sports which I encourage at this age. I'm curious the advantages of strength training at this age. More leg squats, single leg squats, Lunges and band work to strengthen shoulders and arms. Will assist with driving off the mound and more control of muscle function no?

As someone who goes to the gym frequently, I see a massive improvement in my overall athletic ability when I'm stronger. But.. I dont pitch and don't play baseball. .my question being how Important is strength and condition but seeing the 2 replies to my question, it seems simply reps is superior.


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[injnyr]

I would say that both are important. Strength training helps to build muscle and stamina while pitching reps help refine/reinforce mechanics to better spin and locate each type of pitch. Speed will increase over time as they continue to grow. I found that with my daughter, the strength training helped to keep her body connected because the growth spurts would make her uncoordinated until she strengthened her body after stretching. This allows her to get more out of her bullpens and put more effort into her pitches. One more thing to mention is to also make sure to get proper rest to recharge as much as possible.

 

[PJR202]

Sigh? Really? Is this not a message board for questions?

Silly. How dare you not know everything before asking!

I wouldn't have a kid that age doing much direct strength work. Physiologically it's too early for progressive loading. Even bodyweight stuff could be too much if the movement was challenging enough. Some general calisthenics stuff would be fine, along with just regular conditioning/stamina work. Just throwing a lot of reps will pretty much take care of that, though. 300 pitches a week is what I would recommend.

At that age I would stick with mechanics and traditional speed builders involving the ball, such as long toss and the perpendicular power line drill. Remember that 90% of speed can be had from a standing position. You can post up videos for critique here or on facebook's softball pitching advice and analysis page. At her age there will almost certainly be significant inefficiencies to address that will add speed through correction.

 

[_MIA_]

Sigh? Really? Is this not a message board for questions?

And I disagree. 100,000 of anything can be detrimental if you're not doing it right. Simply throwing balls will not necessarily translate to getting better if your mechanics, form and strength and condition is not there. You'll simply be grooving a mechanically flawed pitch. Much like you see at a golf driving range. 99% of people hitting 1000s of balls and yet almost all recreational golfers still suck.

DD has a pitching coach, pitches regularly, wants to get better and drags me out. We plan to go our regularly 3 to 4 times a week although she does play other sports which I encourage at this age. I'm curious the advantages of strength training at this age. More leg squats, single leg squats, Lunges and band work to strengthen shoulders and arms. Will assist with driving off the mound and more control of muscle function no?

As someone who goes to the gym frequently, I see a massive improvement in my overall athletic ability when I'm stronger. But.. I dont pitch and don't play baseball. .my question being how Important is strength and condition but seeing the 2 replies to my question, it seems simply reps is superior.


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The point was to prioritize (good) pitching reps. There are only so many hours in the day. Of all the athletic skills pitching might be the one you can get the most benefit from by just practicing without having an opponent. The skill is completely non-reactionary. Even shooting a basketball, which might be a close second, is different when you have a defender in your face..

Washerman’s Youngblood program is a good starting strength program.

 

[CoachCeetar]

I would argue it's different when a batter is standing in. Throwing a pitch over the inside edge versus inches from a person. And the mental aspect of giving 100% focus to the pitch without having to instantly snap to fielding/dodging a batted ball. Even pacing, the cadence of the game and people waiting for you to throw it, can affect your pitch.

The physical skill is only part of what pitching is. There's probably diminishing returns on the value you get from just throwing in any given day/week/month.

 

[_MIA_]

I would argue it's different when a batter is standing in. Throwing a pitch over the inside edge versus inches from a person. And the mental aspect of giving 100% focus to the pitch without having to instantly snap to fielding/dodging a batted ball. Even pacing, the cadence of the game and people waiting for you to throw it, can affect your pitch.

The physical skill is only part of what pitching is. There's probably diminishing returns on the value you get from just throwing in any given day/week/month.

I didn’t say it wasn’t different. Along with refining your reading comprehension skills (something you can also do without an opponent), learn to use the Reply button..

 

[CoachCeetar]

I didn’t say it wasn’t different. Along with refining your reading comprehension skills (something you can also do without an opponent), learn to use the Reply button..

you said it "might be" so I was providing counter arguments, not specifically to you, but to the thread as a whole and felt everyone could understand that my comment stemmed directly from the comment above it, because as you say, "Reading comprehension"



to the point, It's not always easy to identify what are good pitching reps. Yes, you can work on that without an opponent, but the person in question is already throwing a few times a week. And I think the "what other pitching adjacent things can we do" is a good and useful question.