Is this legal (Quck Pitch / rules question)?

[jc022486]

DDs team was visiting team down 2-1 and time was close to running out. DD is pitching. The other team is stalling, taking extra time giving signs to batters, tying shoes, all the usual tactics.

DD knew she had to be quick if we were to have another at bat. DD would approach the pitching plate from behind, hand separated, she would then acknowledge her signal from the catcher, and bring her hands together and wait, all while the batter was looking taking signals from the third base coach either completely out of the box or one foot out of the box. Once the batter entered the box, and the PU would signal, DD would fire a pitch. I'll admit, she did catch the batter by surprise several times. The opposing coach was arguing illegal quick pitch, however the PU did not call any illegal pitches.

After the game, the opposing coach tells our coach to watch our pitcher she is quick pitching. Her quick delivery was very effective that inning.

As a PU, is there a sequence of events your are looking for between the pitcher and batter's actions?

Are there any rules governing when a pitcher can take their position on the pitching plate (I have checked the rule book and cannot find any)?

Edit: Here is the USSSA rule I was looking at:
RULE 6. PITCHING RULE
Sec 1. A legal pitch shall conform to the following:
A. Prior to the pitch, the pitcher shall put both feet on the pitcher's plate.
Part of the pivot foot must be on top of the pitcher’s plate. The non-pivot
foot must be in contact with the pitcher’s plate. Both feet must be within
the 24-inch length of the pitcher’s plate.
The hands must be apart.
The pitcher may not take the pitching position on the pitcher's plate
without possession of the ball, and the pitcher may not simulate pitching
with or without the ball when near the pitcher's plate.
B. Preliminary to pitching, the pitcher must take a position with the
shoulders in line with first and third base with the ball in the glove or
pitching hand, with the hands separated.
C. While in this position, the pitcher shall take (or simulate taking) a signal
from the catcher.
D. After completing “C” above, the pitcher shall bring the hands together in
front of the body for not more than 10 seconds before releasing the ball.
The hands may be motionless or moving.


If there was a violation of the above, it was probably D. She would be standing there, hands together, sometimes more than 10 seconds while while waiting on the batter to get in the box.

My only problem with what"DD" was doing was having hands together while waiting... I have taught girls to basically do exactly what she was doing except to not put hands together until batter has both feet in box, then she should already know pitch and all she has to do is grip and start pitching motion... That should only take 2-3 sec max... Then it's keeps the team from being able to complain, but pitcher is pitching quickly but legal... Just my 2 cents.

 

[halskinner]

Been a few years since I put my nose in a rulebook and things do change.

I kind of get the impression that everyone is of the opinion that the pitcher is the one that decides when she can throw the pitch. I do not agree with that assumption. That decision lies with the plate ump.

The pitcher is not allowed to start the pitch before the batter is ready to receive the pitch otherwise it's a quickpitch, IP. Now, I have never seen it as a written rule that I recall, however, the decision as to when the batter is ready to recieve the pitch was always signaled by the plate umpire 'Assuming his/her position' behind the catcher. In other words, when the plate umpire bends / leans / gets down for the call, THAT is the signal to pitch and thats when any time restrictions start. That has always been my opinion from my own experience pitching years ago. That makes it a judgement call for the umpire. At least, that is my take on it.

We need a blue or two to chime in here.

 

[tojo]

Been a few years since I put my nose in a rulebook and things do change.

I kind of get the impression that everyone is of the opinion that the pitcher is the one that decides when she can throw the pitch. I do not agree with that assumption. That decision lies with the plate ump.

The pitcher is not allowed to start the pitch before the batter is ready to receive the pitch otherwise it's a quickpitch, IP. Now, I have never seen it as a written rule that I recall, however, the decision as to when the batter is ready to recieve the pitch was always signaled by the plate umpire 'Assuming his/her position' behind the catcher. In other words, when the plate umpire bends / leans / gets down for the call, THAT is the signal to pitch and thats when any time restrictions start. That has always been my opinion from my own experience pitching years ago. That makes it a judgement call for the umpire. At least, that is my take on it.

We need a blue or two to chime in here.

I believe if you read my earlier post, I am not of the opinion that the pitcher is the one who decides when she can throw the pitch. You imply that everyone was of that opinion. I am not.

 

[MandM]

Of course she has to wait til the PU gives her the go ahead. I would agree with the post above - that in future, DD should wait with hands apart then come together and go once the PU signals- waiting with hands together was not legal

 

[knightsb]

waiting with hands together was not legal

Based on what rule? Why is waiting with the hands together illegal if the start of the pitch is not until the hands separate?

 

[halskinner]

Based on what rule? Why is waiting with the hands together illegal if the start of the pitch is not until the hands separate?

Separating the hands once they have been brought together without immediately throwing a pitch is illegal. Bringing the hands together is the pitcher's signal that she is ready to throw a legal and completed pitch. If the batter is not ready at that point, the PU will / should hold up his hand signalling time out. The pitcher may seperate the hands again at that point but should still step back behind the rubber as the whole process will start all over again.

The umpire will a;lso get the message about the batter delaying the game. .

 

[MTR]

If the umpire is doing there job, there should never be a quick pitch.

The umpire doesn't, nor need to signal for the pitcher to proceed after every pitch. However, it is necessary after a suspension of play or when the batter leaves the BB.

 

[jbooth]

Batter putting the hand up means absolutely nothing. Unless the batter has requested time and the umpire has actually granted time, the batter should expect the pitch at any time after the 2nd foot enters the batters box. ASA addressed this issue just this month, link posted below.

April ASA rules clarifications. Amateur Softball Association of America (ASA)

The pitcher is not allowed to pitch just because both feet are in the box. The pitcher may pitch when the batter has both feet in the box and is looking at the pitcher. You can't throw a pitch while the batter is still looking down, getting set.

It's the umps job to stop the pitcher if she starts to pitch before the batter is looking at her.

I don't have all softball rulebooks, but the rules are all pretty much the same. A quick-pitch is one that catches the batter unprepared to hit. It's dangerous. The ump can't let a pitcher pitch while the batter is not looking at the pitcher.

Here's the NFHS rule
Rule 2 Section 43 Article 4
Quick Pitch. A quick pitch is a pitch delivered that catches the batter off balance or otherwise unprepared to bat.

And, the link you provided above for ASA says the same thing. Which is not what YOU said.

Rule 6, Section 10B The pitcher attempts a quick return of the ball before the batter has taken a position in the batter’s box or when the batter is off balance.

"Off balance" in both rules sets, means that the batter isn't set and ready to bat.

 

[Comp]

The pitcher is not allowed to pitch just because both feet are in the box. The pitcher may pitch when the batter has both feet in the box and is looking at the pitcher. You can't throw a pitch while the batter is still looking down, getting set.

It's the umps job to stop the pitcher if she starts to pitch before the batter is looking at her.

I don't have all softball rulebooks, but the rules are all pretty much the same. A quick-pitch is one that catches the batter unprepared to hit. It's dangerous. The ump can't let a pitcher pitch while the batter is not looking at the pitcher.

Here's the NFHS rule
Rule 2 Section 43 Article 4
Quick Pitch. A quick pitch is a pitch delivered that catches the batter off balance or otherwise unprepared to bat.

And, the link you provided above for ASA says the same thing. Which is not what YOU said.

Rule 6, Section 10B The pitcher attempts a quick return of the ball before the batter has taken a position in the batter’s box or when the batter is off balance.

"Off balance" in both rules sets, means that the batter isn't set and ready to bat.

No where in the rule book does it state the batter has all the time she wants to get set. Batters do not get to step in, sweep the dirt around, dig a hole, swing the bat 20 times, hold the hand up, take a deep breath then decide she is ready for the pitch. When the batter first comes up to bat I will hold the pitcher and allow them to prep the batters box they way they like it. After that, the batter needs to be ready for the pitch when they step in. No, I am not going to allow the pitcher to release the pitch the second the batters 2nd foot touches the ground, but, the batter also does not get any and all time she wants. When the batter steps into the box they need to be ready for the pitch.

 

[jbooth]

No where in the rule book does it state the batter has all the time she wants to get set. Batters do not get to step in, sweep the dirt around, dig a hole, swing the bat 20 times, hold the hand up, take a deep breath then decide she is ready for the pitch. When the batter first comes up to bat I will hold the pitcher and allow them to prep the batters box they way they like it. After that, the batter needs to be ready for the pitch when they step in. No, I am not going to allow the pitcher to release the pitch the second the batters 2nd foot touches the ground, but, the batter also does not get any and all time she wants. When the batter steps into the box they need to be ready for the pitch.

I never said the batter could take as long as she wished. I said the pitcher can't pitch when the hitter isn't looking, or isn't ready. It's the umps job to prevent delay by the batter if she is delaying, but the pitcher can't pitch just because both feet are in the box, and you agreed with that. Why did you infer something that I didn't say?