Is this legal (Quck Pitch / rules question)?

[knightsb]

DDs team was visiting team down 2-1 and time was close to running out. DD is pitching. The other team is stalling, taking extra time giving signs to batters, tying shoes, all the usual tactics.

DD knew she had to be quick if we were to have another at bat. DD would approach the pitching plate from behind, hand separated, she would then acknowledge her signal from the catcher, and bring her hands together and wait, all while the batter was looking taking signals from the third base coach either completely out of the box or one foot out of the box. Once the batter entered the box, and the PU would signal, DD would fire a pitch. I'll admit, she did catch the batter by surprise several times. The opposing coach was arguing illegal quick pitch, however the PU did not call any illegal pitches.

After the game, the opposing coach tells our coach to watch our pitcher she is quick pitching. Her quick delivery was very effective that inning.

As a PU, is there a sequence of events your are looking for between the pitcher and batter's actions?

Are there any rules governing when a pitcher can take their position on the pitching plate (I have checked the rule book and cannot find any)?

Edit: Here is the USSSA rule I was looking at:
RULE 6. PITCHING RULE
Sec 1. A legal pitch shall conform to the following:
A. Prior to the pitch, the pitcher shall put both feet on the pitcher's plate.
Part of the pivot foot must be on top of the pitcher’s plate. The non-pivot
foot must be in contact with the pitcher’s plate. Both feet must be within
the 24-inch length of the pitcher’s plate.
The hands must be apart.
The pitcher may not take the pitching position on the pitcher's plate
without possession of the ball, and the pitcher may not simulate pitching
with or without the ball when near the pitcher's plate.
B. Preliminary to pitching, the pitcher must take a position with the
shoulders in line with first and third base with the ball in the glove or
pitching hand, with the hands separated.
C. While in this position, the pitcher shall take (or simulate taking) a signal
from the catcher.
D. After completing “C” above, the pitcher shall bring the hands together in
front of the body for not more than 10 seconds before releasing the ball.
The hands may be motionless or moving.


If there was a violation of the above, it was probably D. She would be standing there, hands together, sometimes more than 10 seconds while while waiting on the batter to get in the box.

 

[halskinner]

Not sure about the USSSA pitching regs. ASA did have a regulation that said the pitcher must deliver the ball within 20 seconds of receiving it in the circle. If the pitcher cannot do this as a result of the batter or opposing coach it CAN be considered delay of game and even unsportsmanlike conduct. Most blues would not call it unless a complaint from a coach was lodged.

Had one umpire get irritated at one coach that was giving lengthy instructions to every one of his fielders in between pitches, to stall. Blue finally told him that this was game time not practice time and do your training at practice or you'll be watching the game from the parking lot!.

Gotta love them blues!

 

[knightsb]

Not sure about the USSSA pitching regs. ASA did have a regulation that said the pitcher must deliver the ball within 20 seconds of receiving it in the circle. If the pitcher cannot do this as a result of the batter or opposing coach it CAN be considered delay of game and even unsportsmanlike conduct.

You are correct Hal. I looked at the USSSA Batting rule which states:

Sec 8. A batter shall not delay the game by failing to promptly take his position in
the batter’s box within 10 seconds of the pitcher having the ball in the
pitching circle, or by stepping out of the box when the pitcher is on the
pitcher’s plate.

So once the catcher returns the ball to the pitcher, then she approaches the pitching plate, then puts her hands together, they opposition would have a hard time arguing the pitcher was holding the ball in the glove longer than 10 seconds if she was waiting on the batter to get in the box.

 

[Jr10234]

I think it's the responsibility of the batter to a) keep one foot out of the box; or b) upon stepping in the box put your back hand up to the PU until you are in the box and ready. Your DD seemed to be perfecting her timing as the opponent stall tactics didn't include preventing the quick-pitch. I also think the delay of game on the pitcher would be more likely if she were holding up the game by taking too long, if the batter's not ready the pitcher has time.

 

[quincy]

Once the batter entered the box, and the PU would signal

I think this is when the pitching sequence starts.

If the batter is in the box the pitcher can start their pitch sequence, they cannot just throw the ball.

I do not think the pitcher can start their pitch until the batter is in the box or the PU tells the pitcher to go. Pitch starts with the taking or appears to be taking sign, etc. If the batter is in the box watching the 3rd base coach they are in trouble, not your fault.

 

[Comp]

Batter putting the hand up means absolutely nothing. Unless the batter has requested time and the umpire has actually granted time, the batter should expect the pitch at any time after the 2nd foot enters the batters box. ASA addressed this issue just this month, link posted below.

April ASA rules clarifications. Amateur Softball Association of America (ASA)

 

[baller]

to answer your question, I would say pitching when PU signals ready is fair game. Up to batter to ask for time or a "verbal" to announce she is ready.

 

[knightsb]

I think this is when the pitching sequence starts.

If the batter is in the box the pitcher can start their pitch sequence, they cannot just throw the ball.

I do not think the pitcher can start their pitch until the batter is in the box or the PU tells the pitcher to go. Pitch starts with the taking or appears to be taking sign, etc. If the batter is in the box watching the 3rd base coach they are in trouble, not your fault.

USSSA defines the pitch starting as the following:

E. The Pitch:
1. The pitch begins and cannot be discontinued when one hand is taken
off the ball or the pitcher makes any motion that is part of the
windup after the hands have been brought together.

They define stepping onto the pitcher's plate and taking the sign as "preliminary" or prior to the pitch.

Quincy you have touched on the basis for my question. Can the pitcher be in the process of or competed with the "preliminary" components of the pitch while the batter is looking at the 3rd base coach for their signs, then bring their hands together ready to deliver the pitch as soon as the batter is in the box as long as the PU does not have time called?

It appears the only penalty for this quick pitch is a NO PITCH being declared:

Sec 4. NO PITCH shall be declared when:
A. The pitcher pitches during the suspension of play.
B. A runner is called out for leaving a base too soon.
C. The pitcher attempts a quick return of the ball before the batter is in
position or is off balance as a result of a previous pitch.
D. The pitcher pitches before a runner has retouched his base after being
legitimately off that base.
E. A player, manager or coach calls time, employs any other word or
phrase, or commits any act while the ball is live and in play for the
obvious purpose of trying to make the pitcher commit an illegal pitch.
The Umpire shall penalize according to the Sportsmanship Rule (11.2.Q).
EFFECT- A-E: The ball is dead, and all subsequent action on that pitch is
canceled.

 

[MandM]

I think the problem maybe with regard to what happened once she brought both hands together.

According to the 2011 ASA rules:

Rule 6-1(E): The pitcher shall hold the ball in both hands for not less than one second and not more than 10 seconds before releasing it, and both feet must remain in contact with the pitching plate at all times prior to the forward step. Page 66-

So it would seem that she can't hold the "hands together" position for longer than 10 seconds before starting her pitch- while waiting for the batter to get ready. If she brought her hands together, and froze at that position for longer than would be an appropriate time- and then went right to her pitch once given the signal from the PU- that technically would be an illegal pitch according to these guidelines.

 

[tojo]

My interpretation of the rule is the ten second rule would start when the batter was positioned in the box and the plate ump gave the pitcher the signal. If the batter were to step out of the box after recieving a time out from the ump, the 10 second rule would restart when the batter re-entered and the ump signaled the pitcher to play ball. The pitcher cannot pitch the ball during a batter's granted time out so the pitcher can step back off the rubber and/or wait for the batter to get in the box before the 10 sec. starts again.