IR--one more time

[tojo]

Dad should be glad that neither of these guys foul tipped any his DDs' pitchs and popped him in the face or elsewhere. He needs to at least wear a mask anytime he allows her to demonstrate her pitching when having a batter.

 

[Steve Huff]

Now comes some clarity.... Not to escalate hostility, but I want to re-state that, by turning the ball towards 3rd, creates the negative motion that triggers the arm whip. IMO

I like this! Even if it was 180 degree I/R it would be the same principle.

 

[Steve Huff]

Oh no.........Did I mis-type what you said?...........Was it "palm down behind you" you said several times was anatomically neutral?........Then finally later correct yourself to say palm out?........Oh well.......
Palm down/Palm up.........."You can parse it all you want", you were wrong.........(sound familiar?)
I guess we're all guilty at some point aren't we..........
I don't know why your still here.........We've proven that palm up is a desired position..........And heck......It may even be "anatomically neutral"..........Since at 9:00 we're no longer in the sagittal plane who can tell?.......IF, in the anatomically neutral postion, the palm faces the same direction as the bicep/humerus...........And at 9:00 the bicep/humerus is facing up/back.......Wouldn't neutral when referencing humerus through palm have the palm facing the same direction as the bicep STILL?........So if the bicep is facing up........Might "neutral" also have the palm facing up?.........EXACTLY the same as the Anatomical neutral position when "hanging" down bicep/humerus/palm forward?.....

Hmmmmm..........

I think, and you can correct me if I'm wrong.........You said Ana. Neutral was technically a fully supinated position......Proven with elbow flexion from neutral...........IOW.......You can't supinate any further from the anatomically "neutral position"......Isn't that also true with palm up at 9:00?..........
You sure Palm OUT at 9:00 is Ana. Neutral?...........
Oh well.........We can't ALL be right can we.........

First let me say that you remind me of a political tactic of one faction of politics. "So when did you stop beating your wife?"
And no, unless you can give page and post numbers to substantiate this notion then I am calling you out on another misstruth, which shows desperation or megalamania. Simply look at how many "Thanks" boardmember has given out. Now PerfectCircle in contrast recognizes that he is not the be-all end-all and realized that other people contribute here. You have achieved your 40 Thanks probably through 90% contribution through at most, 2 people recently, "josephlis" and maybe "dad", with about 30 in two weeks. Joesphlis comes for one day, gives only 10 votes to you, no one else, and disappears. Has he been back? Do you know what I just did? I exercised the "beating your wife" argument on you. How does it feel? Even though it is fact!

Secondly......Huff stated that by placing your arm behind you PALM UP.......You would be in the anatomical "neutral postion".......In fact he said this more then once in this thread.......Infact he said it within his last few posts.......

Palm forward, with arms at the side, or in the case of flexion, with elbow bent and palm up in front, is the neutral anatomical position. I don't think I know more than the doctors and physiologists, which apparently you do! Palm up behind, would not be a neutral position. It is in relation to the elbow only, but the elbow and shoulder are not in a neutral position. They are in an advanced supinated position to allow that hand position behind the hip. The more the hip is closed, the more supinated the shoulder socket has to become, rotating clockwise, because the elbow is already maxed out! It creates maximum tension on the ulnar cruciate ligament. Dallas Escobedo is a great example. You purport a link to I/R from shoulder to hand, then now you refute your own premise with the conjecture that palm up is not I/R. It is indeed I/R throughout the entire limb configuration.

Again, Boardmember is a master of obfuscation. I believe in I/R. I teach I/R. It doesn't matter to me if I can write 3 pages of confusing BS on the mechanics. But there are some simple truths.

1) Palm forward when standing arms down is the originally designed human orientation for neutral physiology. When the radial bone rotates counter-clockwise over the ulna, this is an I/R pronated position. Palms to the thigh, is an I/R position. And through this process of evolution or necessity or whatever, it is a natural position to maintain.

2) Extend you forearm out in front. Take a hold of your wrist with your left hand, and twist your hand clockwise and counter-clockwise. Can you do it? The wrist and hand orientation can not be separated. So in any photo of video where you can see the surface of the wrist, the width of the wrist, the tendons of the wrist, ball grips to not give evidence to palm up or palm out! Only the wrist orientation in the photo shows what phase, or percentage of I/R is being displayed. And half way in-between would be 135 degrees of I/R. If you see the side of the wrist, regardless of grip, you are at 190 degrees of I/R.

The wrist allows NO supination or pronation, period! The elbow does not allow supination from the neutral position, which is and always had been my claim, and a source of Boardmembers attacks. Palm up, neutral, is as far as it goes. The shoulder allows more supination of the arm by the humerus ball rotating in the shoulder socket. The elbow is maxed out! As it comes forward, the shoulder rotates continuously until the release point. The elbow provides the maximum part of I/R. The arm-circle provides the majortity, %, of speed. The wrist view, not the grip, tells the story.

3) I have asked three questions, not based on opinion or drama, but based on a request for scientific analysis as to whether 180 degree I/R is better than 90 degree I/R, because that was the original claim of the post Boardmember made in reference to my "wall drill" post. All of this other fluff is just that. Nonsense designed to either outright misrepresent, or to protect his redoubt in defense of the claims he has made, and lives by. I don't live by any claim, except that I believe in I/R, but how much? I don't know! But I am assailed for asking. And no, it is not "poor, poor me" boardmember! I am not afflicted with doubt by derision. It doesn't make me look or feel small in any way.

Boardmembers claim that he is a know-it-all is not good enough for me. His claim that i/R is beneficial, is, until proven otherwise to ME, helpful! I defer to science, which since the original medical video, he has refuted. Boardmember has explained I/R at length. But he didn't invent it, though you would think so! Now let the personal attacks and miss-quotes begin.

 

[Steve Huff]

I wish they would close this thread. I will be back in a week. I planned a trip to St. Peterburg this week. This board may be relevant, and most here might be relevant, but some issues are not as important to me as others. I have duties to attend to.

 

[wannahit]

if ir is beneficial for your pitching motion, than the more you can safely rotate, the better it would be , seems to me.

 

[sballstat]

ok...Steve, you win! You've crossed the line 1st! Originally, by engaging Boardmember, you were able to inspire some great material. Now, it's rather obvious that you've taken it to a whole new level. I for one have found this forum beneficial and Boardmember has been one of most instrumental and key reasons that I continue to return. He has shared and opened many eyes to the competitive world of pitching and how best to coach our youth.

If you've ever noticed, he is very compassionate whenever he is discussing kids and how best to help them become their best. He always relates examples from their perspective, so they can easily relate and better understand.

Have a nice trip!

 

[BoardMember]

Oh no.........Did I mis-type what you said?...........Was it "palm down behind you" you said several times was anatomically neutral?........

And no, unless you can give page and post numbers to substantiate this notion then I am calling you out on another misstruth, which shows desperation or megalamania.

Darn it Steve, why do I always have to re-comb this thread to show YOU what YOU said.........YOU ORIGINALY SAID PALM DOWN AT 9:00 is NEUTRAL in post #87.....You even referenced that medical video when you said it.......

As the doctors physiologists eluded to in the medical video, and Boardmember disagreed at the time, the neutral position is palm down at 09:00

You REPEATED YOURSELF IN POST #96......And reposted that medical video............

As the doctors physiologists eluded to in the medical video, and Boardmember disagreed at the time, the neutral position is palm down at 09:00

And then you REITERATED IT AGAIN in that same post #96 here when refering to "bowlers":

When the a "bowler" is at 09:00 her biceps faces forward toward the plate. The palm is face-down. That is again the neutral position

So to this point.........You said SEVERAL TIMES that palm down at 9:00 IS neutral.........

At the END of post #96 you CORRECTED YOURSELF.........

I think I may have misspoke. I think palm down at 09:00, with biceps turning forward may in fact be a pronated position. If you hold your arm straight out to the side palm forward, that would be neutral, which can't be the same thing as palm down.

I'm done seaching though your posts to "prove" to you what YOU said ok...........From now on, you do it......

Steve.......I've said it several times here.......STICK TO THE CONTENT and quit diverting........

The following paragraph has EXACTLY WHAT TO DO WITH the mechanics of fastpitch???

Simply look at how many "Thanks" boardmember has given out. Now PerfectCircle in contrast recognizes that he is not the be-all end-all and realized that other people contribute here. You have achieved your 40 Thanks probably through 90% contribution through at most, 2 people recently, "josephlis" and maybe "dad", with about 30 in two weeks. Joesphlis comes for one day, gives only 10 votes to you, no one else, and disappears.

It's interesting that he only has 5 thx........Not 10 as you suggest........And I have no idea who they were all given to.......

I have no idea who these folks are.......But I do know they are real people with kids in fastpitch who have real questions and are looking for REAL answers...........

I'm going to share something with you Steve.........From this guy who you are so paranoid about........Mind you, I've gotten hundreds of PM's just like this one...........

The way you treated him (and so many others).......I can understand why he didn't want to post again.........Not everyone has thick skin Steve......Not everyone is SO narcisistic they can't even see how they treat othe people.........I get many PM's from people who DO NOT WANT TO GET INVOLVED with people like you.......Because they can't stomach how you talk to people.......

I have to say.....For the many years I've been on here........Certainly 3-4 years longer then you.......I've never seen a member who uses so much linguistic negetivity (negetive language) toward SO MANY forum contributors........As well as lurkers who you've irritated enough to get them to post for the first time.......And possibly the last time based on the way they were treated by you...........

You've called me every name in the book........I said ONE TIME I thought you had a god complex when challenged. I've refrained from calling you anything but a "refuter" since a fellow poster pointed out my bad maners........

In this thread alone.......You've called new posters names.....Long time posters names.......And anyone who supports my position on I/R names.......And I believe that says more about you then how many times someone pushes the "thank you" button......

As I said in the past.........I don't choose to use the reletively NEW "thank you" button, because I thank people IN MY OWN WRITING.......

So PLEASE STEVE.....For the benefit of the readers (including those who don't post here publicly)........

STICK TO THE CONTENT and quit trying to make this personal..........Because it ISN'T.........

You want this thread closed???.........WHY???.........Have you counted HOW MANY PEOPLE have said this thread has been beneficial to their discovery?...........What are you SO afraid of...???

I've deleted the rest of the content to deal with in another post.......But for now........I want you to see how paranoid you are..........

And no, it is not "poor, poor me" boardmember! I am not afflicted with doubt by derision. It doesn't make me look or feel small in any way.

Steve......You claim that others don't have the where-with-all to debate content........All I've done is debate content........Sometimes by brining forward mis-information.......And yes, it might not be to your benefit for me to do so.........But in an effort to stay on track on head-off your diversions.......I find it necessary at times........

And I'd like to CONTINUE TO DEBATE CONTENT.......I don't want to spent an extrodinary amount of time defending against your paranoid delusions about who's out to get you and who isn't.........

Boardmembers claim that he is a know-it-all is not good enough for me. His claim that i/R is beneficial, is, until proven otherwise to ME, helpful! I defer to science, which since the original medical video, he has refuted. Boardmember has explained I/R at length. But he didn't invent it, though you would think so! Now let the personal attacks and miss-quotes begin.

Here we go again........Yet another strawman........Not once have I refuted the medical video........You posted it, and YOU are defending it.......Against a strawman that DOES NOT EXIST.......

Go on your trip and enjoy yourself.........And come back prepared to debate content if you so desire.......

Otherwise.......You've stated your position........IF you have nothing more to add TO THE CONTENT......Simply stop responding........You'll be "safer" that way........