Struggling with IR - Return to HE?

[sluggers]

I would encourage unless you want to exaggerate or overbuild IR. Palm up in a quality pitcher usually indicates a riseball or palm up curve.

I think you mean "I would not encourage..."

It depends on the level of the kid. I agree up to around 18U, palm up is not that a big of deal. Young pitchers have a lot more to work on then "palm up at 9".

When a kid has the motion down pat and want to be a good D1 pitcher, having palm up can add 3MPH or more.

My own DD's journey with palm up at 9 was that she was learning a palm up curve. She never could get the curve to work, but she found that palm up added 3 to 5 MPH onto her speed. She incorporated into her motion.

 

[wheresmycar]

The most basic definition:

IR = Internal Rotation = rotation of the upper arm toward the front side of the torso.

Notice Jennie's elbow stops moving forward, and her upper arm rotates towards the target. This is "Internal Rotation".

Some people are using IR to describe an entire pitching motion, or style. I will file that right next to forearm fire.

 

[wheresmycar]

I haven't seen anyone else that played at such a high level have a fake HE follow through as Jennie did. Combining this with the fact that she didn't really understand how she pitched (her words) at one point makes any discussion about her pitching problematic.

Off the top of my head...
Cat Osterman

Amanda Scarborough

Kelly Barnhill


And to be clear, I am not advocating use of a HE finish... I think it is pointless to spend valuable pitching lesson time on what the arm/palm/elbow do after release. You cease to have any influence on the ball after release.

 

[wheresmycar]

I didn't realize you were visually impaired, Apparently, you have difficulty telling the palm from the back of the hand.

No, I am certain I don't.

 

[sluggers]

Combining this with the fact that she didn't really understand how she pitched (her words) at one point makes any discussion about her pitching problematic.

Finch was/is an incredible athlete. She did stuff in games that lesser mortals shouldn't attempt.

The good thing is that I found a video of a complete game of her pitching in the CWS. Great game, and certainly worth taking some time to watch.

 

[Rick M]

Here’s a little story that tells you all you need to know about HE vs IR.

One of the parents on our team is a terrific photographer, and shares all of his pix with the team. One nice shot of DD captured her perfectly at 9 o’clock, with her hand on top of the ball.

With some gentle ribbing, I showed it to her and said, “What is this hello elbow nonsense?”

She responded, with typical teenage girl exasperation, “That’s how I throw my changeup.”

‘Nuff said.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jeffrey]

Here’s a little story that tells you all you need to know about HE vs IR.

One of the parents on our team is a terrific photographer, and shares all of his pix with the team. One nice shot of DD captured her perfectly at 9 o’clock, with her hand on top of the ball.

With some gentle ribbing, I showed it to her and said, “What is this hello elbow nonsense?”

She responded, with typical teenage girl exasperation, “That’s how I throw my changeup.”

‘Nuff said.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've said this about a lot of newspaper photos during HS season - a lot of girls I know for certain throw absolute smoke photographed on top of the ball coming down the back of the circle. My theory is the photographers only get good shots of the change ups because the those are the least blurry shots!

 

[sluggers]

Off the top of my head...

I wish you would come up with something new. You should actually watch the pitching videos before you clip them. It would save time.

Osterman--note that you are looking at the back of her hand, not the palm. Whenever she goes outside (she is a lefty, so that means to the right side of the plate), her arm does that. Her elbow is pointing toward the dugout...that is kind of a clue that is not HE, isn't it?

Scarborough--does a fakey. This is simply cheating. If you had watched the video carefully you would have seen this. She does an IR and then pulls her hand into the HE position.

Barnhart--is doing drills. She does IR and then pulls her hand up. Just take a deep breath and watch the drill. There is a slight pause after she throws and then pulls her hand up. Again, during a game (note all the people, by the by) it is IR.

 

[wheresmycar]

I wish you would come up with something new. You should actually watch the pitching videos before you clip them. It would save time.

Maybe you should actually read the post I am responding to...

I haven't seen anyone else that played at such a high level have a fake HE

 

[sgurg]

Post a side view and a view from 2B. There are some really good people on here that can give you some insight into her mechanical problems. Also, her age is helpful.

A big part of the IR motion is the IR of the forearm. That is, the palm is up at 9, and then rotates to face the plate at 6. Because the forearm is rotating quickly, the palm continues to rotate after release until it faces down.

The IR of the forearm is important because it is the fastest motion (other than blinking) a human body can make. There can be a timing issue where the player isn't getting the full benefit of the IR of the forearm. It is hard to imagine how it is slowing her down.

IR of the forearm is a very basic sport motion. It is used in golf, tennis, ping pong, baseball, football, basketball (passing, not shooting--"thumbs down" for a 2 hand chest pass), javelin, shot put and on and on.

Quitting IR to go from 10-4 spin to 12-6 spin makes no sense at all. Most likely, she just needs practice.

Not sure if I'm posting these videos correctly, but one is from 2B the other from side. She clearly opens too early and her right shoulder rotates too far pulling her head away from home. Also has a bit of a crow hop and lacks FSR. Any other observations? Any drills recommended to help with these and other issues? Thanks in advance!