How should DD tell coach she doesn't pitch anymore?

[radness]

Thanks.
I just read the article and while it's good info, I'm not sure how it's relevant.

IMO it is relevant because it is evidence that shows that surgeries overall have increased in numbers.
Not just elbows.

That's okay you can look at the one situation with pitchers elbows as its own consequence to pitching.
imo you have to look at overall surgery statistics to make fair comparison.
I was surprised in my Google researching that I found the article that stated softball players have a higher risk of injury than baseball players.
Every article I have read through says overuse is the root of the injury problem.
And I absolutely 100% think that there are players that will push themselves as far as they can push beyond their bodies limits. Then knowing that they can have a surgery make some push farther.

Another surgery based example
If you look at football player surgery. There is a very common shoulder surgery that is done where they shave off the cuff of bone that extends over the Rotator of the shoulders. Because it causes an impingement syndrome. That surgery became more prevalent. And allowing players to get back on the field without continual problem.

 

[Shiloh]

Softball doesn't have the equivalent of MLB. Players get a serious injury they quit the sport.

But there are professional softball pitchers.
And college softball pitchers.
And 15-18 year old softball pitchers.
And none of this is new.

If softball pitching had the potential to cause major damage to a part of the arm like baseball, we all would know by now.

******************************

But that's not to say softball pitching isn't injury-free.

Here's an interesting study that concludes pitch limits for underhand pitching might be needed:

What Do We Know About Youth Softball Pitching and Injury?

Participation rates in fastpitch softball are continually on the rise, especially in youth. With the increased participation also comes the increased injury susceptibility. Unfortunately, the common misconception about the dynamic 360° windmill ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It makes note of how most softball injuries occur to non-pitchers, most times early in the season, and due to fatigue. It says that when pitchers are injured, their shoulders are involved 60% of the time. It also very interestingly makes note of similar joint loads for overhand and underhand pitching. It links to an article (from 1998) which states that "Based on the results reported by Loosli et al, it is hypothesized that the stresses on the shoulder and elbow generated during underhand pitching are similar to the stresses experienced during overhand throwing."

So no free rides here.

But no epidemic of TJ surgery either.

 

[_MIA_]

Are we really arguing what style of pitching causes more damage to the arm? There is a reason softball pitchers can (effectively) throw (in a game) 100+ pitches every day while baseball starters throw every 5th day…

 

[Shiloh]

IMO it is relevant because it is evidence that shows that surgeries overall have increased in numbers.
Not just elbows.

Another surgery based example
If you look at football player surgery. There is a very common shoulder surgery that is done where they shave off the cuff of bone that extends over the Rotator of the shoulders. Because it causes an impingement syndrome. That surgery became more prevalent. And allowing players to get back on the field without continual problem.

With respect,

The point of the article is that increased specialization in sports by youth at younger and younger ages is driving an increase in overuse injuries, some of which require surgery on young people who in the past, doctors would not have considered as candidates for such surgery because of their age.

 

[Shiloh]

Softball doesn't have the equivalent of MLB. Players get a serious injury they quit the sport.

Yes, economics could explain some of the disparity.
That's a great point.

But it wouldn't explain why more 15-18 yo baseball vs 15-18 yo softball pitchers get arm injuries.

 

[radness]

For discussion
I understand and recognize that there is a limitation to being able to produce throwing overhand. But I think we can also acknowledge that there is a larger percent of overhand pitchers who do not have Tommy John surgery. There's a reason that they do not and the others do.

Would you consider the increase in surgery rates of other injuries like ACL that climbed 148% in 10 years?

Is there any discussion toward the medical field being able to do surgeries much more efficiently and effectively? That people will jump into surgeries a lot easier than they would have in the past because they can get out from surgery the same day and are back on the field in weeks?

Is there any discussion about how much people might be over working their bodies to have to then have a surgery because they overused their body?

Simply the injury is not necessary just because pitchers are throwing overhand.

*They are doing more than what their body can handle.
Causing breakdown.

 

[Shiloh]

For discussion
I understand and recognize that there is a limitation to being able to produce throwing overhand. But I think we can also acknowledge that there is a larger percent of overhand pitchers who do not have Tommy John surgery. There's a reason that they do not and the others do.

Would you consider the increase in surgery rates of other injuries like ACL that climbed 148% in 10 years?

Is there any discussion toward the medical field being able to do surgeries much more efficiently and effectively? That people will jump into surgeries a lot easier than they would have in the past because they can get out from surgery the same day and are back on the field in weeks?

Is there any discussion about how much people might be over working their bodies to have to then have a surgery because they overused their body?

Simply the injury is not necessary just because pitchers are throwing overhand.

*They are doing more than what their body can handle.
Causing breakdown.

Discussion is winding down, thankfully.

The disconnect here as I see it -

You suggest that surgery rates are going up because more players are demanding surgery when they're injured, recovery time is lessening, surgery technique is more efficient, players are playing more than they used to, youth are specializing in sports earlier, other types of sports surgeries are going up, et. al.

I am saying that many baseball pitchers get TJ surgery because they injure their UCL throwing and there is no equivalent injury/surgery of any type for softball pitchers. Nothing even close.

Therefore, softball pitching is safer than baseball pitching.

 

[radness]

Discussion is winding down, thankfully.

The disconnect here as I see it -

You suggest that surgery rates are going up because more players are demanding surgery when they're injured, recovery time is lessening, surgery technique is more efficient, players are playing more than they used to, youth are specializing in sports earlier, other types of sports surgeries are going up, et. al.

I am saying that many baseball pitchers get TJ surgery because they injure their UCL throwing and there is no equivalent injury/surgery of any type for softball pitchers. Nothing even close.

Therefore, softball pitching is safer than baseball pitching.

I was just bringing in discussion points that I think are relevant to the topic is all.

Said nothing to the effect that players are demanding surgery,
just that surgery is available and more prevelant.
Nor did i enter this discussion to try and prove one and thing or the other.
I entered this discussion to think it through and take a look at perspectives.

Along with already recognizing pitchers can tend to overwork themselves and cause injuries
in doing some research found
1. Numbers that were relevant in that surgeries over all have gone up.
2. Softball has a higher injury rate than baseball.
3. ACL surgeries have gone up 148% in 10 years... which in itself sounds like an amazing increase.

 

[Bullseye]

But there are professional softball pitchers.

There is nothing in women's professional softball that is comparable to major league professional baseball.
MLB has money. Which is a motivation driver for athletes to keep performing. Get paid while they're getting surgery. The other aspect is calling it the show the glitz and glamour of being in it. Without money women's professional softball won't go anywhere. Those players have to work their own jobs to try and play.

 

[Shiloh]

I was just bringing in discussion points that I think are relevant to the topic is all.

Said nothing to the effect that players are demanding surgery,
just that surgery is available and more prevelant.
Nor did i enter this discussion to try and prove one and thing or the other.
I entered this discussion to think it through and take a look at perspectives.

Along with already recognizing pitchers can tend to overwork themselves and cause injuries
in doing some research found
1. Numbers that were relevant in that surgeries over all have gone up.
2. Softball has a higher injury rate than baseball.
3. ACL surgeries have gone up 148% in 10 years... which in itself sounds like an amazing increase

thanks for the input