HOW do you Teach TILT!

[Chris O'Leary]

Clip 16-17 shows the elbow leading the hands. I guess you call it "elbow slotting". I like that term as well (slot position). Either way the hands are following the elbow for a split second similar to throwing.

Her swing is a bit unusual, with more scap loading and reverse-rotation of the shoulders than is typical.

However, the thing to notice is how her back elbow is at her back hip as she turns the corner in frames 17 and 18.

 

[Jim]

BTW, this is also why I never talk about where a hitter should hit a ball relative to the plate -- for example when talking about where to place the tee -- because where the plate is located in the hitter's stance is going to vary from hitter to hitter based on where they stand relative to the plate. When talking about where to place the tee, you have to talk in terms of the hitter's body (e.g. at the heel of the front foot or at the belt buckle).

Ball placed at the "heel of their front foot" or "at the belt buckle". Is this done during the stance, or after the load and the front heel plant has occurred?

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Ball placed at the "heel of their front foot" or "at the belt buckle". Is this done during the stance, or after the load and the front heel plant has occurred?

After heel plant.

 

[Jim]

Her swing is a bit unusual, with more scap loading and reverse-rotation of the shoulders than is typical.

However, the thing to notice is how her back elbow is at her back hip as she turns the corner in frames 17 and 18.

Understood, but that is after the fact. The slotting of the back elbow is the element that allows the "throwing" of the barrel rather than pushing it. The elbow doesn't lead for longer than a split second, this I think we agree on. But remember this... Too much of anything is too much

 

[Jim]

After heel plant.

Thanks for clarifying, I agree.

 

[RayR]

sooooo....you like the drill (or in oleary speak "this isn't a terrible drill" - this way you can keep your distance from committing), but it is a standard straw man argument....for me to say that you believe it will help....

that player is trying to do exactly what you say will improve the swing...hold the hinge angle, connect the hands to the rear shoulder and rotate until the barrel flies around to contact.....

Standard straw man argument.

This isn't a terrible drill but, among other things, I don't like the angle of the front elbow.

 

[RayR]

so when a clip is posted from the side you say the swing is unconventional....clips from the 1st base line don't give the correct angle.....like a weatherman, you are.....sunny tomorrow everyone, enjoy the beach....that 8 hour rain storm popped up out of nowhere.....sunny tomorrow everyone, enjoy the beautiful weather, leave the umbrellas home.....

I hope that everyone who looks at this clip understands that this clip was shot looking down the first base line, not from the side on.

As such, the arrows mean very little that is relevant.

However, from this angle you can see that the back elbow never gets ahead of the back hip, which is what matters.

Same for the other clip.

Of course, what I have gotten out of this exchange is an understanding of why some people believe what they do; they are unable to rotate objects in their head and get a sense of the true relationship of the parts.

Look, a giant with his finger on top of a lighthouse!!!

 

[Dr. Chris Yeager]

Understood, but that is after the fact. The slotting of the back elbow is the element that allows the "throwing" of the barrel rather than pushing it.

BINGO!

Understand the movement of the HUMERUS.

During the loading phase the (rear) humerus should lift and turn in (ABduct and INternally rotate)--I like to say "turn the elbow up"

In phase 2 the elbow "slots" with the humerus lowering to the ball and turning outward (ADDucts and EXternally rotates)--I like to say "turn the elbow down to the ball" (not into the rib cage).

This slotting/EXternal rotation is a "lag" creator--it allows torso rotation/stretch to begin while keeping the hands back.

External rotation of the rear arm is vital to the throwing/whipping /kinetic link pattern.

As long as the hands do not flatten during the slotting phase no one will cry "bat-drag" regardless of the position of the elbow relative to the hands.

The rear humerus is turning outward--skilled hitters resist turning the hand with it.

( i.e. they resist supination of the top hand as the humerus turns outward and slots.)

 

[Dr. Chris Yeager]

From my IsoBaseball website...enjoy!

 

[Towson 15]

FFS,
The swing of the hitter that MTS posted from HI is not what I was describing in my previous post in this thread.Maybe you or MTS could tell me if that video is an example of what is being taught there?In many high level swing videos it appears to me that the back elbow is slightly behind the rear hand as the swing progresses around the corner,in others the back elbow gets even with the back hand as the corner is being turned and I also observe that in some cases the back elbow slightly gets ahead of the rear hand. I agree that if the back elbow is behind the rear hand as the corner is being turned that there is no bat drag.The danger in getting the back elbow ahead of the rear hand to my understanding is that it is inefficient. Once the back elbow gets ahead of the rear hand ,it takes time to reverse the process and makes the swing longer as it moves towards contact.